Suggestion Technician to technician forum

[KOMPRESSOR]

Scubaboard has it's restricted instructor to instructor forum, which I'm sure I will use when I'm done with my OWI this winter!

Although right away I miss a "Technician to technician forum" for us that either makes some pocket change or those who are building up huge empire DS-stores on fixing other peoples' problems with diving gear like regs or compressors.

I'm doing service and installations of diving compressors myself and might contribute some there. I'm also a newbie tech on valve service (Apeks, Aqualung and Coltri Sub), and I could really need someone to ask now and then, to check if I got the manuals right.

Howboutit anyone out there? :blinking:

 

[Dive-aholic]

We are currently moving servers and so do not want to make any changes right now. However, let's try Kompressor's ideology first.

Dive-aholic,

Normally, this sort of forum would be open for professional technicians only. However, I am willing to listen to everyone's take on that before we make any decisions.

But what constitutes a "professional technician"? How does it get proven? I know "techs" that have taken one 4 hour seminar with a manufacturer and are servicing regs at a shop on a regular basis. I've done tons of reading, a lot more than 4 hours, and broken down lots of regs. I'm not associated with a shop so I can't attend a manufacturer seminar. I understand your concerns, Pete. But this Board is made up of lots of DIYers that probably have a lot more experience than most shop monkeys we encounter out there.

Wait, I'm a TDI cylinder inspector! Does this qualify me?

 

[cerich]

Vance,

I truly appreciate your iput here, as well as the others. We obviously have a DIY area and they deal with reg repair quite often. However, there are other issues which some may not wish the entire dive community to see: just technicians.

But since there is no clear cut standard for what constitutes a tech, like there is for an instructor, we have to think outside of the box. Maybe making this an opt in forum and evaluating WHY a person wants to join would be enough. Would that keep the casual observer OUT of this forum and enable both the tech and the manufacturers able to to discuss matters of importance?

Hey Pete,

I'm seeing two side to this. Under traditional "industry" thought this whole idea sucks...

Good thing I'm not traditional.

The tech to tech aspect would be a great venue for techs to learn from each other much as we do in the instr. to instr. forum, it would be a little more difficult to "qualify" a tech because who wants their fax box overflowing.

For the hardy and adventures types that are determined to service their own regs without training and qualifications (you know who you are) the experienced folks on here could sure get them out the the corners they will find themselves in.

There are some liability concerns here as well, I think you would need to have the participants agree to a seperate TOS for this section that reads more like a liabilty release for you, Scubaboard and the participants that give advice, it may not stand up but it would be better than nothing and also set the tone that if someone does service their own reg badly and dies they have no one but themselves to blame...

I would also recommend that it does not become "A a to Z guide to servicing your reg", but instead is limited to specific questions on specific issues.

Sharing service guides or other stuff that vendors produce would be a VERY BAD idea. They are copyright and all marked for use of authorized dealers only, not for distribution etc. We already know that some vendors can get very aggresive about stuff posted on here, ask Divesports (There is one frequent poster who links to his website where he has them posted and everytime I see it done I cringe because while I understand why he does, it is illegal use of copyright material)

The mods would have to be very good techs and mods...

My two cents...

Best,

Chris

 

[cerich]

I really dislike the notion of special restricted forums since it creates a hierarchy and inner circle which I think goes against the spirit of the net and especially of forums like this. It might make some sense, I guess, for instructors since they arrive at their qualifications after a rigorous and lengthy process, and might have issues to discuss that really don't concern the rest of us, but being "qualified" to service regs is anything but that. The only reason the notion even exists that individuals shouldn't service their own gear is because the gear manufacturers have, for reasons having to do more with profit than safety, managed to promote the notion, and by creating a special tech-only group this board would be pretty much just playing mindlessly into their hands, and helping these companies perpetuate the self-serving, illogical, and probably illegal policy of reg manufacturers.

It's pretty ironic that we freely discuss deep diving, decompression, gas mixing and homemade gear on this board but that people bring up libability the minute you talk about servicing regs! If there is a difference, I sure can't see it. You could argue equally well that the tech forums should only be open to people who can produce evidence of being certified tech divers, and gas mixing only discussed by people by certified gas mixers. Everything about diving is inherently dangerous, and hence has the possibility of creating liability.

Hey Vance,

You willing to moderate that forum?

Best,

Chris

 

[The Chairman]

You know Chris,

I figured I would see you in here stirring the pot sooner or later. "Wax on, wax off"

 

[Kim]

Personally I like NetDoc's idea. Make it opt-in and have someone look at the reasons for someone wanting to join. If liability is really an issue then the board could be hung out to dry already. I've seen LOADS of advice in almost every area put forward on the board that if "Oh but they told me that on ScubaBoard..." really counted then the board probably couldn't even exist. There are already disclaimers in the SB FAQ about what is posted here. Maybe it's copyright etc but I also have seen links to where you can find most everything that you need qua service manuals etc. As long as they aren't posted here I don't see the problem. Maybe it's different in the US but if I own some piece of gear I consider it my own right to also have access to how it's built so that I can service it myself. It's the same with cars for instance. You can find extremely detailed, possibly better than manufacturer standard, manuals and guides for any car that's ever been built. I find nothing morally wrong with seeking out that information about something I have bought outright. Personally I think that the manufacturers might do a lot better to be less "protective" about their stuff - rather than use restricting information as a way to control and maintain pricing structures for their products. I really don't see why I should have to pay exorbitant prices in Japan for something I can a) do myself, and b) costs a lot less anywhere else on the planet anyway.
US$170 to simply strip an Apeks reg set for inspection (not counting the price for parts, i.e. rebuild kit!!!!!!!!!!)

You have to be joking..........

 

[cerich]

Personally I like NetDoc's idea. Make it opt-in and have someone look at the reasons for someone wanting to join. If liability is really an issue then the board could be hung out to dry already. I've seen LOADS of advice in almost every area put forward on the board that if "Oh but they told me that on ScubaBoard..." really counted then the board probably couldn't even exist. There are already disclaimers in the SB FAQ about what is posted here. Maybe it's copyright etc but I also have seen links to where you can find most everything that you need qua service manuals etc. As long as they aren't posted here I don't see the problem. Maybe it's different in the US but if I own some piece of gear I consider it my own right to also have access to how it's built so that I can service it myself. It's the same with cars for instance. You can find extremely detailed, possibly better than manufacturer standard, manuals and guides for any car that's ever been built. I find nothing morally wrong with seeking out that information about something I have bought outright. Personally I think that the manufacturers might do a lot better to be less "protective" about their stuff - rather than use restricting information as a way to control and maintain pricing structures for their products. I really don't see why I should have to pay exorbitant prices in Japan for something I can a) do myself, and b) costs a lot less anywhere else on the planet anyway.
US$170 to simply strip an Apeks reg set for inspection (not counting the price for parts, i.e. rebuild kit!!!!!!!!!!)

You have to be joking..........

I agree, as long as it wasn't the manuf. manuals that were posted it would be fine. You'll notice that while I have seen the links and manuals and know they are copyright I've never said anything regarding the Oceanic manuals on there. That being said I'm sure not going to post them on here.... I wouldn't want Pete to have other vendors manuals on here for sure as well. (kazaa anybody??)

Best,

Chris

 

[letterboy]

In the instructor forum I can quite easily see why it should be closed. Incident or training discussions may well involve other SBers and knowing that the students in question are reading the posts would restrict the discussion.
OTOH I see a technician forum as serving to educate all of us.
If various technicians are having a parts availability problem or an adjustment problem on certain brands/models of reg then I for one would like to know about it.
Maybe the model should be - "Available to be read by all but posting only by opt-in"?
I think this would certainly cut down the noise level.

The noise in the room would certainly be cut down but we all know someone will start a thread in whine and cheese about how billy can't service a reg without help or how some reg parts are becoming scarce. . . If this forum would become a reality I think it needs to stay closed to the casual reader, the casual reader can post there question in the DIY forum or even like the ask an instructor section of this forum. . .