Tech fin options - neutral buoyancy?

[Dave Bevan]

I can fin backwards with out fins... whilst some fins may help by having thicker edges it is a technique thing as well.

 

[lowflyer]

I can fin backwards with out fins... whilst some fins may help by having thicker edges it is a technique thing as well.

Well, I think we all can I do it for practice. But I think the point is that some fins are more efficient at it than others.

 

[stuartv]

I must say that I'm one of those who cannot extend my ankle so my foot is parallel to my tibia and I've been spoiled by diving in Force Fins, which are super comfortable.

Now that you mention it, I guess I should throw in that I am mildly disabled in my right foot/ankle. Thanks to my previous passion, roadracing motorcycles, my right ankle only flexes a very slight amount. Basically, scar tissue holds my right foot up at a 90 degree angle to my shin. That scar tissue prevents me from "pointing" my foot down. A severed anterior tibialis (muscle down the front/right/outside) of my shin prevents me from flexing my foot up. So, technically, I have a slight case of drop-foot, but really it's basically just frozen at a right angle to my shin.

I did notice when I was attempting to back fin for a distance that I actually tend to drift to the right. I figure it's because I can't really get the best angle with my right foot, so I'm not getting as much reverse thrust on that side. Even so, I am still able to back up pretty well. I need to practice being more gentle with just my left foot, so I can go really straight.

 

[Dave Bevan]

Well, I think we all can I do it for practice. But I think the point is that some fins are more efficient at it than others.

To be honest I think the OP is over thinking it IMO. What I mean is that buying a fin for it's back fin ability could perhaps be considered trying to find an equipment solution to a training problem.

In terms of fins themselves I have OMS slipstreams and I can find no difference to my SP jet fins. People say they are lighter in the water but I can find no evidence to support this.

The hollis grey F1s are really nice. Apeks RK3s are really nice too. I don't know and haven't tried the diverite ones. I also tried the deep6 ones and they are really different to all the others. Super powerful and stiff. I didn't like them but I only used them in the pool for a bit and didn't really get used to them.

I think he should look for some short stiff fins and assess how they affect him in terms of trim rather than back fin ability.

For the record I would use any of those fins he mentioned.

 

[lowflyer]

To be honest I think the OP is over thinking it IMO. What I mean is that buying a fin for it's back fin ability could perhaps be considered trying to find an equipment solution to a training problem.

In terms of fins themselves I have OMS slipstreams and I can find no difference to my SP jet fins. People say they are lighter in the water but I can find no evidence to support this.

The hollis grey F1s are really nice. Apeks RK3s are really nice too. I don't know and haven't tried the diverite ones. I also tried the deep6 ones and they are really different to all the others. Super powerful and stiff. I didn't like them but I only used them in the pool for a bit and didn't really get used to them.

I think he should look for some short stiff fins and assess how they affect him in terms of trim rather than back fin ability.

For the record I would use any of those fins he mentioned.

I agree that back finning is not the most important criterion for evaluating a personal fin choice.

 

[stuartv]

I agree that back finning is not the most important criterion for evaluating a personal fin choice.

But, if they fit well and are comfortable, have the desired buoyancy characteristics, and are more than adequate for all forward propulsion techniques, how would you decide between the many options?

After trying the Atomic Blade, Dive Rite XT, Hollis F1 LT, and Deep6 Eddy, I can say that they are all (including the Atomics) comfortable (to me), have acceptable buoyancy (to me), and they all provide more than adequate forward propulsion (to me).

 

[Dave Bevan]

They way they look. Price?

 

[lowflyer]

But, if they fit well and are comfortable, have the desired buoyancy characteristics, and are more than adequate for all forward propulsion techniques, how would you decide between the many options?

After trying the Atomic Blade, Dive Rite XT, Hollis F1 LT, and Deep6 Eddy, I can say that they are all (including the Atomics) comfortable (to me), have acceptable buoyancy (to me), and they all provide more than adequate forward propulsion (to me).

Agree.

I am not a tech or cave diver and never will be one for various reasons, but I appreciate being able to do the different finning techniques because they are quite useful in any diving. We can all imagine situations where back finning or helicopter turns or frog kicking prevent injury to a reef or avoid collision with an invading diver I have found them useful in herding students.

Problem has been that Hollis and other such brands are heavy and mess up trim for a lot of us. Good for dry suit trim, not so good in a wet suit. So here we have the Eddy, a stiff, short, wide fin that makes the finning easy and is so light that trim is not affected.

YMMV

 

[stuartv]

Prior to today, I had only used the Eddy fin while in sidemount. In my sidemount rig, I was not able to back fin nearly as well as with my grey Hollis fins (F1 LT).

Over the last couple of months I feel like I have learned how critical correct trim is for successful back finning. I think the Eddy fins make my feet too light and that is why I have not had great back finning with them (in my sidemount setup).

Today, I started in the pool in my single tank rig, using my F1 LT fins and back finning was very good. But, I felt like I was also sculling to keep my feet from sinking.

I changed to the Eddy fins and that fixed my trim so that I could hover motionless for much, much longer at a time in trim. And, with good trim, I was finally able to get a very acceptable back kick with the Eddy fins. I taught one of our new divers how to frog kick and was in front of her and to her side and I was going backwards as fast as she was going forwards.

The Eddy fins truly are living up to all the SB hype!

And they taught me some things about trim and back kicks. Bonus!

 

[elgoog]

Just wanted to post my 2c here as I've been following this thread and had a chance to do some experimenting yesterday.

My primary setup is steel doubles (100s and 120s), TLS350 with Turbosoles, XM450, double layered wool socks and F1s in saltwater. I absolutely love the power of the F1s but have gotten feedback from my regular dive buddies, as well as in video reviews, that my fins drop when I'm task loaded or not moving. I went back and looked at other videos of me diving and noticed that I'm seeing this even during the recovery phase of kicks. Technique is obviously a big factor here as well as leg positioning (clenched glutes, toes pointed, etc) but even when consciously doing that, I felt like I was expending energy in my legs doing it.

My legs have never been floaty - I've been skinny since I was a kid and, to this day, have never been able to float on my back without my legs dropping, even in saltwater. I already own Deep6 fins as I bought them for warm water diving so, for funsies, I tried them out locally yesterday and did not get the sinking leg feeling at all. Power felt lower but it was more relaxed feeling overall. Admittedly, the dive was not what I normally do (shorter, hardly any distance covered, no buddy feedback) so I will be trying them out in the next few weeks when we kick around quite a bit more. From the very short first impression, though, I'm extremely excited about using them again and seeing how they work out.

Will post more here as I get more dive time with them. I also got Thinsulate socks, as I'm a cold wuss, and am going to try those out with the F1s and Eddys and will post about that too. My current thinking is that these may add some floatiness to my feet but no idea how significant or impacting that will be.