Tec computer with Trimix and A.I., is Suunto HelO2 the cheapest option?

[ianr33]

"In addition, an Error warning (Er) reminds you that you have only three (3) minutes tocorrect the situation. You must immediately descend to, or below, the ceiling. If you continue to violate the decompression, the dive computer will go into a permanentError Mode. In this mode, the instrument can only be used as a depth gauge and timer.You must not dive again for at least 48 hours (refer to Section 5.6. Error conditions)."

That is truly ridiculous and totally unacceptable in a trimix computer. Why the heck would anyone buy one?

A Shearwater will keep giving a Best Guess as to what to do no matter how much you abuse it.

 

[DCBC]

It is worthy of note that the manufacturers of diving computers don't usually provide information about the specific algorithms they use (some more so than others); let alone the impact this has on the risk of DCS. Likely this is due to the fact that diving computers are not regulated and validation is a complex and expensive process. I don't believe that most manufacturers don't have the actual data necessary to support claims of risk control.

Regardless, it is left to the individual to assess his/her fitness to dive, physical condition, work load, water temperature, ascent rate and other variables that can contribute to DCS and make an adequate exposure plan. The algorithms used by some manufacturers sometimes tend to be more padded than they may need to be, keeping in-mind the public's penchant for driving at the speed limit, regardless of the road conditions. They often push the tables too far...

 

[DevonDiver]

It is worthy of note that the manufacturers of diving computers don't usually provide information about the specific algorithms they use (some more so than others); let alone the impact this has on the risk of DCS.

I think that's the big difference between computers that use third-party versus proprietary software.

Where third-party software is added (by the consumer) to the computer, then there is a distinct shift in liability. Also, the third-party software retailer has to be much more open about the algorithm - because that (as a standalone) is what differentiates the product.

Buying a computer installed with (non-optional) proprietary software is more about the computer, less about the software. Often, as you state, the finer points of the software aren't even made public. IMHO, it makes those computers far less attractive to more experienced technical divers - a polite way of saying that proprietary single-option software computers are aimed at tech noobies or tekkie wannabies..

I'm surprised computer manufacturers even bother with proprietary software nowadays...

 

[ianr33]

It is worthy of note that the manufacturers of diving computers don't usually provide information about the specific algorithms they use (some more so than others);

That's (yet another!) thing I like about my Shearwater. It uses Buhlmann with gradient factors. (VPM is also available) You can spend hours reading about the finer points of either model,and plug any crazy profile you choose into a Dive Planner and you will KNOW exactly how the computer will behave.

Can this Suunto computer do that (I don't know,just asking)

 

[boulderjohn]

That is truly ridiculous and totally unacceptable in a trimix computer. Why the heck would anyone buy one?

A Shearwater will keep giving a Best Guess as to what to do no matter how much you abuse it.

I contacted Suunto to ask about this and other features that I thought were wrongheaded. They wrote back with a rationale for every one of them, so I don't think they have any intention of changing. I did not agree with a single one of their rationales. I don't even remember what they were.

 

[ianr33]

I think Devon nailed it above "IMHO, it makes those computers far less attractive to more experienced technical divers - a polite way of saying that proprietary single-option software computers are aimed at tech noobies or tekkie wannabies.."

IMHO Suunto knows their market is not the "real" technical market. Probably more money to be made from the noobies who don't know better. (and AI transmitters!)

 

[HIGHwing]

I think Devon nailed it above "IMHO, it makes those computers far less attractive to more experienced technical divers - a polite way of saying that proprietary single-option software computers are aimed at tech noobies or tekkie wannabies.."

IMHO Suunto knows their market is not the "real" technical market. Probably more money to be made from the noobies who don't know better.(and AI transmitters!)

I think Suunto is smart from a marketing perspective. They are trading on more information is more information as a selling point. What Shearwater does is present you *relevant* information about the dive.

The more you think about it the less and less relevant it is to know your decompression cylinder pressures during decompression. If you run out of your scheduled gas, you simply follow the plan for running out of the scheduled gas. Granted, you need a gauge at the beginning of the dive to assure you have the necessary volumes.

 

[DCBC]

I think Devon nailed it above "IMHO, it makes those computers far less attractive to more experienced technical divers - a polite way of saying that proprietary single-option software computers are aimed at tech noobies or tekkie wannabies.."

IMHO Suunto knows their market is not the "real" technical market. Probably more money to be made from the noobies who don't know better.(and AI transmitters!)

There is nothing the matter with driving a Ford; they have been manufacturing cars longer than anyone. If you want a bit more than a standard Ford can provide, there's the Lincoln line. Regardless, in no way can a Lincoln ever compete with Rolls Royce or Bugatti. Similarly you have Suunto; a computer designed for the recreational diver market. Like Ford, they want to broaden their base; thus there entry into the "technical realm." That said, there are more costly alternatives such as Shearwater or Liquidvision that are the leading edge. You can no more compare a HelO2 with one of these computers than you can a Lincoln with a Rolls Royce. You are paying more for a reason. If you choose to pay less, that is of course the Buyer's option, but what you receive is not the same. Lets stop kidding ourselves.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

There is nothing the matter with driving a Ford; they have been manufacturing cars longer than anyone. If you want a bit more than a standard Ford can provide, there's the Lincoln line. Regardless, in no way can a Lincoln ever compete with Rolls Royce or Bugatti. Similarly you have Suunto; a computer designed for the recreational diver market. Like Ford, they want to broaden their base; thus there entry into the "technical realm." That said, there are more costly alternatives such as Shearwater or Liquidvision that are the leading edge. You can no more compare a HelO2 with one of these computers than you can a Lincoln with a Rolls Royce. You are paying more for a reason. If you choose to pay less, that is of course the Buyer's option, but what you receive is not the same. Lets stop kidding ourselves.

Except that in this case (since I can't find a HelO2 without a transmitter or for less than $999) the Lincoln costs more than the Rolls/Bugatti/Aston ($950 SW Petrel).

 

[DCBC]

Except that in this case (since I can't find a HelO2 without a transmitter or for less than $999) the Lincoln costs more than the Rolls/Bugatti/Aston ($950 SW Petrel).

If that's the way it was, it would make the decision even easier. They are available for much less though:

$650.00 - Suunto HelO2 - Without Transmitter | Simply Scuba UK

I suppose what it comes down to is value. Technical diving isn't cheap; if you want to save money, the best way to accomplish this is just not get into it in the first-place. For those that do, get proper training, understand what's required and then make a decision want to buy. I'd recommend that you do your homework and don't be deceived by gimmicks. Like I said before, what is purchased depends on the preference of the Buyer.