Tec computer with Trimix and A.I., is Suunto HelO2 the cheapest option?

[kr2y5]

I looked at a lot of computers, and Suunto HelO2 seems to be the cheapest I came across that offers both features. At $1500, it is more expensive than I was hoping to spend, but not out of question. Are there any similarly-priced or cheaper alternatives?

Here is some context. I plan to engage in some tec training, and incidentally, after 80 or so dives, my Suunto Zoop started misbehaving, so I am looking into replacing it promptly. I plan to switch gas during the dive, and sooner or later, I would like to maybe progress into Trimix (for wreck dives in the ~150 feet range), which rules out most affordable hardware on the market. Most on ScubaBoard seem to recommend Shearwater Peterel and Liquivision X1. Sadly, as far as I can tell, neither of these currently offers Air Integration.

Is A.I. somehow fundamentally incompatible with technical diving, unsafe and against the principles? Also, pardon my ignorance, but when diving with doubles, and barring some equipment failure, would a single transmitter mounted on a manifold suffice or will I need two of them? Are there any other concerns with Air Integration to be aware of?

I like the idea of having remaining air readily available on my wrist, along with all other information I wish to glance at frequently during the dive. I would think that checking it more frequently will increase my awareness of SAC rates, especially if I can analyze them for various points during the dive after downloading the log into a PC. Transmitter disconnection does not concern me, since I already own an analogue SPG that I can continue to use as a backup. I understand that an experienced diver will always know how much air they have without the need to check frequently, but at 100 dives, I am obviously not an experienced diver, so presumably, that argument does not apply to me. Correct me if I am wrong, but I would assume that with the right mindset (not relying on alarms, etc.) A.I. could only help to develop the kind of situational awareness I need to remain safe. Or would it not?

 

[00wabbit]

Sounds like you should take the training before buying the computer.

Most tech training I have heard of requires you to use a bottom timer and calculate everything yourself for class.

A.I. is generally frowned upon by tech guys because it's yet another failure point and you still need to have an spg as a backup in case of signal failure.

Source: I'm not a tech diver but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Buy a Petrel. Get over your interest in A.I., and remember that if you're not experienced enough to know what your consumption should be you're not experienced enough for basic deco much less tmx.

I would not do a deco dive with anyone running a Suunto algo, as it's hard to match. I also would not get in the water with someone whose computer was likely to start beeping for any one of a number of reasons.

Read the manual for both the Petrel and the HelO2 -- if after seeing how relatively poorly designed an old p.o.s. the HelO2 is, you still have any interest in it as a tech computer, buy one.

 

[rongoodman]

I think you will get a lot more suggestions to avoid AI and Suunto's proprietary algorithms for technical diving, in favor of something that runs VPM or Buhlmann GF. I like the display and compact size of my X1, but I prefer the botton interface of the Predator controller on my Prism 2.

 

[berk]

I agree with these other posters. A.I. becomes the least important part and a Bulhmann based model and other features become more important. I just spent a week with a shearwater Petrel and they are clearly the way to go right now.

 

[kr2y5]

Thank you. I have a few clarifying questions.

I would not do a deco dive with anyone running a Suunto algo, as it's hard to match.

I think you will get a lot more suggestions to avoid AI and Suunto's proprietary algorithms for technical diving, in favor of something that runs VPM or Buhlmann GF.

a Bulhmann based model and other features become more important

A number of you raised this point, I presume you mean the deco with Suunto's RGBM tends to be much longer even after adjusting conservatism settings, and that makes it impractical when diving with someone who uses Buhlmann GF or VPM. Just curious, how much longer deco are we typically talking about? Is it to be expected that a pair of tech divers use more or less the same algorithm?

if after seeing how relatively poorly designed an old p.o.s. the HelO2 is, you still have any interest in it as a tech computer, buy one.

Could you please elaborate? I am not trying to defend it, and I do not mean to question your assessment, I just want to make sure I am aware of the kinds of design flaws that should be treated as red flags when shopping for a computer.

remember that if you're not experienced enough to know what your consumption should be you're not experienced enough for basic deco much less tmx

Hmm, the knowledge I can gain from the logbook, based on starting and ending tank psi, appears to be somewhat limited. I know my SAC rate is typically 0.6 under normal conditions, but easily grows to 0.7-0.9 in cold water or in current, and I have experienced >1.5 SAC due to CO2 buildup. These vary, and there is probably a fairly thick error margin in all these measurements, given that my SAC will change in various portions of the dive. I have never used an A.I. computer, but I would assume it could give me a much richer knowledge of my SAC under a variety of conditions without requiring any deliberate effort on my part.

Is this sort of knowledge not very useful to tech divers? Of if it is, how do tech divers go about acquiring it? Do you routinely engage in various exercises at a constant depth while logging tank pressures, etc. on a slate, to estimate your SAC in a variety of conditions, and repeat this process frequently as you modify equipment, gain/lose weight, etc.? Or is your SAC rate so constant/predictable that you just don't bother? If it is the latter, I can definitely see how A.I. could be viewed as a useless gimmick...

 

[Nwcid]

[-]If you are going to be doing gas switching AI will do you no good anyhow.............[/-]

Sorry, bad info.

 

[HIGHwing]

The Sunnto RGBM isn't *longer* it's just misshapen comparatively.

 

[Teller]

Why not get the training and then get the gear? Youll learn about gear when you take a intro to tech course and that may help you decide on what gear to get. I would not buy a $1500 computer. That money could be spent else where.

 

[00wabbit]

Your sac rate is what it is. Knowing what it is won't improve it. Training, trim, diving and comfort will improve it. Go get the training. I took intro to tech and really understand a lot of the math much more and I'm not a math person. I also learned how much more there is to learn and have a better idea how to get there.

I would get a petrel of you are dead set on a computer. 1500 is too much for any computer.
You won't use the computer I. Your intro to tech class.