ajduplessis
Contributor
I dived that suit and did not like it. Valve drills is a hassle 
Tec computer with Trimix and A.I., is Suunto HelO2 the cheapest option?
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DevonDiver
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Alex@nder
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ianr33
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Good to know.
How does that work with sidemount?
And/or a stage of bottom mix?
Just wondering.
The only fair answer to your question of is RGBM's application is to define a couple assumptions. 1) All decompression models are flawed in one, many, or several ways. 2) It's impossible for you to learn enough about the models in the short-fused window of "I'm looking to buy a computer" to really feel satisfied you know what you're even evaluating. 3) The divers in this thread who are promoting the Shearwater product and *actually* executing technical dives are not Shearwater groupies, they represent divers who are in control of the dive.
As you read this, please understand there may be many follow-up posts explaining everything I'm not offering you in alarming detail. Couple of things first: One of the largest transitions I see divers making as they mentally shift from recreational diving to technical diving is the priority they give to their computer. If you were to take my recreational open water class and you selected the computer option, I'm going to tell you to use the computer to plan and execute your dive. As you transition to a technical diver, the community demands you have a clue how the model(s) work such that you can make pre-planning decisions, evaluate the data, and make smart choices before and during the dive.
My job as a technical diving instructor is to get you thinking *way* outside magic boxes and gizmos you can strap to yourself and get you to take charge of the dive. I need you thinking, making proper decisions, and understanding the fundamental academic knowledge and applying it correctly. While I admit that using a bottom timer and depth gauge is the most romantic possible execution of a technical dive, I'm trying to be realistic. People are buying computers, using them, and they're not exploding goat any more regularly riding the computers. HOWEVER, the big difference for you is that you can buy a computer where you're in absolute control of the model(s), or not.
With the Suunto product, you're attached to RGBM, you're committing to bubble-model, and you're accepting that deeper/longer versus getting shallow fast and staying longer is better (assuming you follow the computer). Personally, my wife and I both have discovered through repeated "live human experiments" that we do not respond to deep longer/shallow shorter favorably. Given a Shearwater or Liquivision (etc), I can run Bubble or non-bubble models, I can manipulate the model to how I feel based on prior dives, and I can use V-Planner/Multi-deco very accurately as Buhlman/VPM are available for planning purposes. Granted there is software for RGBM, but every iteration is proprietary by design, so never feel like you have quite as much control.
Long story short. Buy Suunto, you get a model that's shaped along the deep stop theory with some bubble model brillance and have some variance in the dive planning software results. Buy Shearwater and you have the ability to use Bubble or Non-Bubble, you can control the shape of the model, and it's a brilliant computer to boot.
Going back to the OP's initial question. If you want an AI trimix tech computer (I will not weigh in on whether this is "good" or "bad"), that is also AI for all of your cylinders/gasses complete with remaining gas time for each, as far as I know the only computer that does it, with up to 8 gasses is the scubapro Galileo Sol. It runs a Buhlman 16 compartment algorithm with some adjustible conservatism that can add deeper stops.
It is outside your $750 budget, though. It think the new pricing is $1200 including the transmitter.
Not touting it, just providing information as it is an additional option that has the feature which the OP was interested in.
It is outside your $750 budget, though. It think the new pricing is $1200 including the transmitter.
Not touting it, just providing information as it is an additional option that has the feature which the OP was interested in.
But NOT certification!View attachment 175026
The USN qualification is seven days (or least it use to be). It's pretty straight forward. IMCA doesn't cover certification of drivers, so basically the companies run the orientation themselves. When I took the course, I almost wasn't able to start as I had a hell of a time getting into the JIM suit (my calfs made it a tight fit). One Chief on my rotation had huge arms so couldn't attempt to qualify. When I used an Exosuit several years later, it was much easier.
It's pretty cool to motor around in 1000 FSW for 7-8 hours knowing that you have comms, an ability to drop ballast and over 3 days of breathing air. It's also nice to know that you can surface immediately (as fast as you want to)...
Many thanks to you all.
I can see that my questions could have come across as confrontational. That was not my intention, and I apologize. Please do not take my inquisitive tone as a stubborn inclination to argue to the contrary. Quite the opposite: I meant it as an invitation to let me in on the thinking process behind the recommendations you and others made. Your explanations so far have been very helpful.
We want the same thing. I would rather not buy anything until I am satisfied that I fully understand the choice, and I mean "understand" somewhat literally... I am also eager to take the training and learn from practice, but the winter is long, my drysuit has not been ordered yet, and I like to read....
As a matter of fact YES, very much so... please share.
I can see that my questions could have come across as confrontational. That was not my intention, and I apologize. Please do not take my inquisitive tone as a stubborn inclination to argue to the contrary. Quite the opposite: I meant it as an invitation to let me in on the thinking process behind the recommendations you and others made. Your explanations so far have been very helpful.
We want the same thing. I would rather not buy anything until I am satisfied that I fully understand the choice, and I mean "understand" somewhat literally... I am also eager to take the training and learn from practice, but the winter is long, my drysuit has not been ordered yet, and I like to read...
.As a matter of fact YES, very much so... please share.
My only experience with a Suunto HelO2 should give you something to think about.
My buddy and I had planned a deep decompression dive using V-Planner. He had just gotten the use of the HelO2 through his work, and he decided to bring it along to see what it would do. He set it up as best he could to match the V-Planner algoritm. We followed the V-Planner schedule absolutely perfectly on our ascent, and the HelO2 got angrier and angrier at us as we ignored it. During our 30 foot stop it got angry enough to shut down. It went into gauge mode because we were not doing what it wanted us to do, and it stayed that way for 48 hours. It thus quit on us during the dive, and we could not use it for two days if we had wanted to.
About a year later, I joined with a group that was doing a dive with V-Planner. I agreed to follow that plan. I had a Shearwater computer with me, but I did not have the V-Planner program in it. When we had done planning through V-Planner, I put the bottom time, depth, and gases into the Shearwater to see what it wanted me to do, and it gave me an extremely different plan. I followed the V-Planner schedule as promised, and the Shearwater kept adjusting and adjusting and adjusting as I ascended. When we finished the V-Planner schedule, the Shearwater cleared within a minute. It had completed adjusted to what we did. If it had not adjusted, and if I had gotten out of the water while it still thought I owed some deco time, it would have been fine with that. It would have assumed that I went with a different computer's algorithm, and it would have been ready for me on the next dive.
You may want to think about a computer that will DEMAND that you follow it and then become unusable for two days if you decide to follow your buddies computer instead.
My buddy and I had planned a deep decompression dive using V-Planner. He had just gotten the use of the HelO2 through his work, and he decided to bring it along to see what it would do. He set it up as best he could to match the V-Planner algoritm. We followed the V-Planner schedule absolutely perfectly on our ascent, and the HelO2 got angrier and angrier at us as we ignored it. During our 30 foot stop it got angry enough to shut down. It went into gauge mode because we were not doing what it wanted us to do, and it stayed that way for 48 hours. It thus quit on us during the dive, and we could not use it for two days if we had wanted to.
About a year later, I joined with a group that was doing a dive with V-Planner. I agreed to follow that plan. I had a Shearwater computer with me, but I did not have the V-Planner program in it. When we had done planning through V-Planner, I put the bottom time, depth, and gases into the Shearwater to see what it wanted me to do, and it gave me an extremely different plan. I followed the V-Planner schedule as promised, and the Shearwater kept adjusting and adjusting and adjusting as I ascended. When we finished the V-Planner schedule, the Shearwater cleared within a minute. It had completed adjusted to what we did. If it had not adjusted, and if I had gotten out of the water while it still thought I owed some deco time, it would have been fine with that. It would have assumed that I went with a different computer's algorithm, and it would have been ready for me on the next dive.
You may want to think about a computer that will DEMAND that you follow it and then become unusable for two days if you decide to follow your buddies computer instead.
I agree 100%. This operation is what makes the Suunto a poor technical dive computer in my opinion. If you cut your tables and they are a bit different than the computer generated algorithm, the computer should never shutdown and be non-functional for two days. From the HelO2 manual:
"In addition, an Error warning (Er) reminds you that you have only three (3) minutes tocorrect the situation. You must immediately descend to, or below, the ceiling. If you continue to violate the decompression, the dive computer will go into a permanentError Mode. In this mode, the instrument can only be used as a depth gauge and timer.You must not dive again for at least 48 hours (refer to Section 5.6. Error conditions)."
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