Tank size for new divers

[pescador775]

Those are good reasons and some feel that the use of big LP tanks is the right approach for PP mixing of gases. Personally, I prefer the HP 100. However, when one goes to this or another higher capacity tank it is necessary to actually check bottom time and DC status rather than guessing. I found that out the hard way after moving up from a 90. I got bent using exactly 72 cf air and that is a statement not only about tank capacity but to realize and understand the consequences of being experienced and complacent. I doubt that this is a problem for newbies. Judging from the comments on this board the average new diver is equipped with every safety device known to man, from inflatable buoys, strobe lights, BCD's, gauges galore, and redundant everything. There is a certain atmosphere of 'safety crazy' these days. This applies to most arenas. For example, vehicle air bags. If one subtracts the number of fatalities caused by air bags and then calculates the number saved by these devices it is possible to calculate the cost of 'safety'. That cost does not include the fact that fatalities caused by air bags are mostly children with many years ahead of them. In the case of air bags the number is in; it costs $25,000,000 to save one life. Of course, the stock of air bag manufacturers has been on a tear.

I'm still a brand-new diver, but decided to buy my own tanks early on. I did some math and found out I would break even between costs of rentals and owning my own tanks after 75 dives, excluding the annual visual. I plan to make 50 this summer alone. Big tanks are are a big investment, and I did not want to end up not using the ones I bought initially in favor of something more suitable for later types of diving.

 

[Wreck]

I shouldn't have posted my Darwinism comment. I still participate in some potentially lethal hobbies and complacency tends to increase with experiance. I often find myself doing a mental check of the hazards and how they can happen. Safety probably is more emphasized nowadays than it used to be. The safeness aspect of the booming dive industry's reputation (and their $$$) is at stake.

Would I be correct in assuming you just did not have enough air left to do the deco when you got bent? Was there a computer available to help with the depth and timing of deco(?) I'm just curious for my own learning, not trolling for fault.

OT: As far as airbags go, If it saves a life that's one thing, but if it lessens upper-body injuries, that would be the selling point for me.

 

[bg10459]

Thank you all for your input, I'll take all of it into consideration. While I haven't made any final decisions, I still have a few arguments on my side. I plan to use the tank as an LP (i.e. 120cf) because I like the idea of low pressure on my gear. I like the E8-149 because it can be overfilled, I usually wont do it though. I also only want 1 tank, I have an AL80 already. This would definitely be something to grow into, as with diving.
I love life, have no plans of dying soon and don't take stupid risks (in response to enough air to hang myself). My diving buddy is an instructor and has taught me well the ideas of redundancy and safety. I will do no deco diving without at least 1 pony tank in addition to my main and don't drain my tanks dry during a dive, etc. I may usually come up with lots of air, but thats my safety margin just in case. Once again, Thanks

 

[Rick Murchison]

Every now and then I run into a new diver who really is a hoover and really does need a bigger tank to make "normal" NDL dives, and to let his (it's always a "he") buddy have a decent bottom time before he needs to ascend.
What I tell 'em is this:
"You have a couple of options here... you can rent our 100's for the time being, and as your air consumption stabilizes with experience you can decide what to buy as your own tank then. If you really want to buy now, and intend to keep training and progressing towards deco or cave diving, go ahead and buy a big tank, but buy it with an "H" valve on it. If you want to buy two, get a left & a right. That way, when you're ready for Advanced Nitrox or cave training, you'll have a leg up on the equipment you'll need."
I have enough faith in our training that the mere possession of a big tank won't entice one of our divers to go into deco (or any other overhead environment) without the proper training.
Rick

 

[Scuba_Vixen]

Every now and then I run into a new diver who really is a hoover and really does need a bigger tank to make "normal" NDL dives, and to let his (it's always a "he") buddy have a decent bottom time before he needs to ascend.
What I tell 'em is this:
"You have a couple of options here... you can rent our 100's for the time being, and as your air consumption stabilizes with experience you can decide what to buy as your own tank then. If you really want to buy now, and intend to keep training and progressing towards deco or cave diving, go ahead and buy a big tank, but buy it with an "H" valve on it. If you want to buy two, get a left & a right. That way, when you're ready for Advanced Nitrox or cave training, you'll have a leg up on the equipment you'll need."

I have enough faith in our training that the mere possession of a big tank won't entice one of our divers to go into deco (or any other overhead environment) without the proper training.Rick

I think you've hit on an important point here that we've sort of left out of the discussion to this point. Some folks have received much better training and additional information above and beyond their OW /AOW materials. Some have the advantage of very experienced or tech dive buddies within their circle of friends. I think these folks are more likely to make better decisions and get themselves into less "what do I do now" situations than the average newbie without that core of experienced support.

Along with that may be a greater commitment level to additional training and continuing experience. I think your suggestion to "rent our 100's" untill some more experience and so on has been gained is exactly what most have been saying. I think newbies need to wait at least 30 to 50 dives before putting big $$$ into big tanks ... you see so much scuba gear on Ebay, it's best to wait untill the newness of it all has had a chance to wear off, and the newer diver has a better handle on what direction they want to go in. Then, if the commitment level is still there, the big tanks and H valves (and the training to use them properly) seem like a reasonable expenditure.

Perhaps because of where I am, I see a disproportionate number of "2 day wonders" (OW cert in 2 days) ..... And what's worse, are the ones you see each year on vacation after the cert. ... (add OW referals here too) What skills they had the moment they displayed them sufficiently to go on to the next one and get their card, have been on a steady decline since that moment. I've seen a dead cat in a wetsuit with better trim and bouyancy control. There are some people that I'm convinced pose a great risk to themselves and loved ones just by being near water, and yet somebody somewhere certified them to dive.

Long and short of it, I just can't see any compelling reason for anyone to have anything bigger than a 100cft tank for the first 30 dives, nor any value in buying one of the really big ones before having rented/tried them after that first 30 dives. All that good stuff is going to be down there next week, next month, next year. Why rush the most important learning phase ..... good skills, good habits, good choices, right from the beginning.

Darlene

 

[pescador775]

Sorry for the late response. Divers are trained to achieve safety through equipment. Actually, most accidents are diver error or boat error. Over the years my air consumption has gone down considerably. I'm a freediver trained to hold breath for several minutes and swim at 60 feet without breathing apparatus. During the tank dive in question I simply failed to look at the D meter because my tank showed over 1000 psi and the dive was a 'hohumm' to 60-90 feet, nonrepetitive dive similar to which I had made many times. I failed to appreciate that older divers gradually lose their 'immunity' to bends. The hit was a typical type II with a bubble lodged in the spinal cord. There was partial paralysis, chamber treatments and a two year recovery period. Dr Deco has pointed out that some of these cases may be attributed to post dive exertion in which internal strains cause a temporary reversal of blood flow driving small bubbles into the arterial side. Check with him about that. However, that is one of the few theories that I've seen from anyone that is plausible. Remember, check your time and deco status and know where the anchor line is at all times. Know that you should drink plenty of liquid during the intervals and get some exercise, particularly off season.

I shouldn't have posted my Darwinism comment. I still participate in some potentially lethal hobbies and complacency tends to increase with experiance. I often find myself doing a mental check of the hazards and how they can happen. Safety probably is more emphasized nowadays than it used to be. The safeness aspect of the booming dive industry's reputation (and their $$$) is at stake.

Would I be correct in assuming you just did not have enough air left to do the deco when you got bent? Was there a computer available to help with the depth and timing of deco(?) I'm just curious for my own learning, not trolling for fault.

OT: As far as airbags go, If it saves a life that's one thing, but if it lessens upper-body injuries, that would be the selling point for me.