Talk me *OUT* of a BP/W setup

[Bennno]

@Colliam7
Can you stay off of me? I don't have a 'personal beef' with Tom, asked him. My personal differences are with YOU and your whining and your biased 'moderation'. I have asked a legitemate question and if you would read Toms reply you would see that he thinks so to, that's it.
If anyone is derailing the thread it's YOU and kry. Until kr2 and you chimed in with OT posts, there was no beef, it's called discussion.

 

[kr2y5]

I wish more people took example from T-bone in how to be generous with good advice 100% of the time, and condescending 0% of the time, questioning his motives wasn't either positive, helpful, or necessary. I invoked the mod, and I'd do it again. If you wish to discuss this further, feel free to take it to PM or start another thread.

Back on topic: I've had backmount and sidemount rigs for some 1-1.5 years. I've been doing many, many more backmount dives, for various reasons, not the least of which being surrounded by a lot of GUE divers. When I think about the next vacation trip that I might take, though, I know I'd definitely like to be diving redundant setup, not because I need it, but because I feel like it. I haven't had any difficulty in arranging doubles in Florida or Mexico in the past, but I imagine in many parts of the world, it's much easier to just rent two AL80s and make them into a sidemount rig. So, I'm pretty sure that's what I'll do. And, the desire to build some experience in tweaking my sidemount rig without help is in part motivated by the desire to be able to do it durign the trip, given whatever I have available at my disposal.

If I were to do it all over again, I wouldn't do it any differently, I'd still get both BP/W and sidemount rigs and tried both, for the sake of trying and being able to develop my own opinion. But, if I were motivated by practical reasons, I might seriously consider sidemount, like a few poeple on this board. At some point, aging will catch up with me, my mobility will be even worse than it is now. Might as well begin with the end in mind (pun intended).

 

[KDAD]

Yeah. The GUE/DIR team approach with a common kit was a big motivator for me in choosing a bpw.

The travel aspect may give an edge to sidemount.

 

[tbone1004]

no beefs with Bent, he and I get along quite well, just trying to make sure we're all being open with what is going on.

anyway, @KDAD asked about sidemount vs backmount. Contrary to the beliefs of many of my dive buddies, I am a firm believer in using each as a tool.

Rigs I currently own
Dive Rite Transpac II with Travel Wing-my first bc, don't use it often, but it is still a viable rig and if I am diving with purely recreational divers and don't need ballast, I will still use it on occasion, but it's really the loaner rig.
Dive Rite Nomad XT-customized for me with their long pattern transpac which makes it a very different rig than what you could buy off the shelf. The comfort of the long pattern transpac caused me to use this for singles/doubles/sidemount exclusively for a while.

DSS Kydex and SS plates in Long pattern-I learned in a Halcyon BP/W and if you look back to early posts I swore up and down that I couldn't wear a one piece harness comfortably. Come to find out it was because I couldn't get the straps in the right position because the plate was way too short. Going to these long pattern plates changed backplate diving for me and I now use these for all backmount diving. I have LCD30 and Torus 49 wings for these and won't go back.

Hollis Katana-new to me as of a few months ago and changed sidemount diving for me, honestly. It's not perfect yet, but gen2 should be real close *mainly due to lack of lift for some of the big diving we're starting to do

Bunch of different prototype sidemount rigs that were DIY, or sent for evaluation.

So, what do I use when and why?
Transpac doesn't get used anymore, it's very very comfortable, and it gets loaned out, but I don't dive it anymore.

DSS rigs are used for almost all open water diving whether that is quarries, rivers, ocean, etc. Only time sidemount comes out for open water is when I'm testing new gear. I posted a picture of me diving the Katana at a local quarry, but 10 minutes after that picture was taken, those tanks were being loaded into a set of independent doubles bands with my DSS doubles rig because I was working with another instructor for open water training. I think backmount is better for teaching environments unless it is a sidemount specific course because you can get in and out of the water very quickly. I dive backmount in the ocean because I think it's easier, this may be a biased opinion due to having more hours in backmount than sidemount, but I think ocean diving is better done in backmount unless you are penetrating a wreck that is on its side but that I wrap up into extenuating circumstances. I find the square profile of diving backmount to be better for most wreck diving, especially since passageways aren't always very wide. Should be noted that I don't like single tank backmount diving personally and if given the option, I will always grab a set of smaller doubles *lp72's, HP100's, HP120's etc* instead of multiple single tanks.

Sidemount is still going back and forth between Nomad and Katana though I hope to make the Katana my primary rig here shortly. Doesn't have enough lift for big tanks in a wetsuit, so I might have to concede and dive dry more often. I dive sidemount in caves because I think it is a safer configuration for cave diving because you have independent access to your gas and you can see each post. Add to this the large abundance of bedding planes in the caves I dive and even the vertical fissure cracks are easier to navigate in sidemount. Backmount is a fixed profile, since you are mostly square and that isn't very versatile. The Katana may actually be a bit of a game changer for me in single tank diving for travel as single tank sidemount with an AL80 is quite comfortable and super easy to dive. Clip the neck leash onto the shoulder, clip the bottom in, hop in and you're good to go. I snap the bungees on over the valves on descent anyway, but this Katana might be small enough for me to take with me for STSM

That is my personal opinion on the matter. I do not maintain dedicated doubles setups *I do have 1 set of lp72's that I use as loaners* as I dive independent doubles so the indy doubles cam bands allow me to use my sidemount bottles which is nice. I see no room for jackets in any diving unless you have a student with a weird anxiety thing and needs the pressure all the way around the body, but at the same time just put them in a snug wetsuit and you should get similar results....

 

[Bennno]

questioning his motives wasn't either positive, helpful, or necessary. I invoked the mod, and I'd do it again. If you wish to discuss this further, feel free to take it to PM or start another thread.

Ok, so next time I think your post isn't heplful, I go and complain to a mod. I find your posts not helpful or necessary either, but I'm not whining about it.

... it's much easier to just rent two AL80s and make then into a sidemount rig.

If that's your plan you pretty much bought one of the worst SM rigs for travelling diving AL80s. The Contour was designed for diving with steels.

I have also recommended a SM rig to the OP but at that point I didn't know he was just doing his OW course.

 

[Bennno]

no beefs with Bent, he and I get along quite well, just trying to make sure we're all being open with what is going on.

Thanks, that was my impression.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . I haven't had any difficulty in arranging doubles in Florida or Mexico in the past, but I imagine in may parts of the world, it's much easier to just rent two AL80s and make then into a sidemount rig. . . .

Extrapolating from the raised eyebrows and looks on the crews' faces as they tried to accommodate my DIR-ish ways in some parts of the world, I can only imagine how they would react to a vacation diver who insisted on sidemount. Maybe, for the world traveler recreational diver, there is something to be said for using gear that conforms to the global norm. Never having to explain yourself could be a relief. Ah, the simplicity of being just another vacationer in a jacket-style BC, yoke regs, etc.

 

[Bennno]

...I can only imagine how they would react to a vacation diver who insisted on sidemount. Maybe, for the world traveler recreational diver, there is something to be said for using gear that conforms to the global norm. Never having to explain yourself could be a relief.

True, but you can dive a single AL80 with the right rig with no problem. Initially I suggestes a SM rig because the OP was looking for a rig he could use for double tanks AND single tank diving. IMHO, a good SM rig is more versatile than any bp/W configuration. Most people that dive bp/w have more than one wing... lot's of SM divers use the sme rig and home and on vacation.

 

[kr2y5]

I wouldn't want my vacation dive to be the first dive in a new unfamiliar rig, I'd want to have at least a hundred dives in the rig behind my belt, and intimate familarity with it by then, which means I would've dived this rig locally in our cold PNW waters. Could that be done with Razor-style rigs, here in PNW? Maybe... but personally, I don't know a single person who's done that. I think I remember reading about TSandM trying out Razor locally, and being unhappy with it. I may be wrong.

@Lorenzoid: it could be, but then, I think it's easier to be dealing with "we don't like your rig" attitude, where you can at least negotiate, than with a "we don't have doubles for rent", where there's nothing you can do. But I don't know, just speculating. Never tried.

 

[Bennno]

Nobody said 'Razor-style' rig.

I may be wrong.

Yes, you are wrong. I don't know a single person that watches baseball, but that doesn't lead me to the conclusions that nobody does.
I've tried to give you advice in the other thread but you didn't wanna hear it. I don't get why you don't wanna take a course or read up on it.

I wouldn't pick a razor-style rig but of course you can use a harness-style system in cold water, especially in OW. Tons and tons of people are doing it.