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Suunto Eon Core or Aqualung i770R Dive Computer

Discussion in 'Computers, Gauges, Watches and Analyzers' started by Howie411, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. KenGordon

    KenGordon Rebreather Pilot

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    But where do you stop? How many minutes can you drop and not increase risk?

    It might be an arbitrary line, but there are still concequences of crossing it. They might not always include obvious injury but only an increased chance.

    Do you think that are so incompetent as to bend their computer will notice what they did if it doesn’t sulk inconveniently?
     
  2. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
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    Where your training and experience tell you to.

    None.

    Don't know.

    Also, the consequences are the same when you cut 1 minute off your final stop, no matter whether you dived GF30/70 and are omitting 1 minute of deco or GF50/80 and had no deco.
     
  3. KenGordon

    KenGordon Rebreather Pilot

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    Training tells people to dive the plan, not to skip deco. Experience? These are low probability events. Personal experience isn’t likely to be a great indicator. I have seen the dive computer of a bloke who,surfaced at a very high GF by accident. He was ok. Does that mean i can do the same, can he?

    The truth is nobody has to bend a computer unless there is a serious problem.

    The pure GF computers have advantages vs the proprietory ones in that they can say “this is what you asked for” rather than having to defend the safety of the algorithm. So they don’t need to justify the profile following a missed stop. Everyone else would. So how do you do that?
     
  4. Efka76

    Efka76 Barracuda

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    It seems that people arguing for the sake or arguing :) Decompression is not a precise science. All decompression models use empirical research as well as some scientific data in order to predict gas de-gassing from the tissues. When there is quite a lot of data on recreational dives, for deeper dives this data is not so vast. There are many different factors who could have influence on decompression illness such as weight of the person, body structure, fitness level, hydratation, even mood ( I know a very experienced tech guy who had a huge experience in tech diving and got bent because he was nervous regarding some previous event that happened in his life before his dive..... he got bent despite the fact that was playing by the rules and did similar profile dives many times before without any accidents).

    Deeper you go, less available data is available to be included in models. You can miss decompression stop by few minutes and might be ok, or you can play by the rules during ordinary recreational dive and still get bent. Also, scientists still do not know the exact cause for DCI (the main assumption is bubbles and their size but this is not 100% proven fact).

    Accordingly, all these discussions about missing deco stop by 1 minute or diving with slightly different GF ratios seems a bit useless.
     
  5. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light

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    And further training tells people how to evaluate how much deco they want to do.

    Then you've missed the point. The point of this discussion has been to illustrate why it's perfectly reasonable to want a dive computer that does not lock you out if you omit any deco.

    If a person uses conservative "deco" settings on their computer and then they choose to omit the very last minute of deco that was prescribed, and they have the training and experience to support that decision, then it is perfectly reasonable and not some mad delusion of safety for them to do so. In which case, it is reasonable for that person to specifically select a computer that won't lock them out when they do that.
     
    BenjaminF and scubadada like this.
  6. KenGordon

    KenGordon Rebreather Pilot

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    Which training is that? The school of SB?

    It is fair enough to make choices about profiles before the dive, and for contingencies, but to think on the dive, “oh it is probably ok, I will just go up now.” is hardly what you are trained to do.

    Which course is it that you pass by skipping deco?
     
  7. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light

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    I don't know of a course that you would pass by skipping deco. Courses often require you to demonstrate that you CAN do something, even though you are not necessarily expected to actually DO that thing every single time after you have finished the course. My AN/DP course had us deploy an SMB at the end of every single dive. Does that mean that I am in violation of my training if I now do a dive where there is no need to deploy an SMB at the end so I don't?

    My training has focused a lot on being a thinking diver. Thus, as one example, I normally dive GF50/80 for tech dives. But, sometimes I will use GF30/70 because I anticipate that the dive conditions might be more challenging than normal and I want to be extra conservative. However, if I do that and the dive turns out to be much more benign than I had allowed for in my planning, I might make the decision at my last deco stop to proceed to the surface when I can see that my surfacing gradient will be below 80.

    However, I could understand if someone else was trained in a more rigid fashion, with the emphasis on dogmatically following a plan versus thinking at all times, where they might disagree with doing what I just described.
     
  8. KenGordon

    KenGordon Rebreather Pilot

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    LOL a personal attack. :)

    So on a computer which insists you do the stops or gets a strop on, you do the dive and if it is a hard dive do extra stops.

    Do you really skip deco or are you just making this up as part the SB hatred of all things Suunto?
     
  9. dmaziuk

    dmaziuk Orca

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    Actually, no. What prompted this particular tangent is me saying there's only one way you can change to a more aggressive deco schedule during a dive without appreciably increasing your risk, and that is if your planned ascent schedule was overly conservative. And the point is that you weren't anywhere near deco to begin with.

    So, no, switching conservatism factors mid-dive and omitted decompression lock-out post-dive are not the same thing. It just so happens that computers that allow one also don't do the other, but correlation is not causation: they all've like different letters and stuff.
     
  10. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light

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    Nothing personal. You haven't said what you do or whether you agree with me or not. You've only asked questions. And fair ones, at that.

    I'm not sure what your first sentence is intended to communicate. I don't know what "gets a strop on" means or what the last bit is really trying to say.

    As for me skipping deco, I have not done that yet. I think I have been lucky in having my dives all work out to plan, or close enough. But, skipping a bit in the context I previously described seems perfectly reasonable to me and I would probably do so if I ever found myself in that particular situation.

    That said, none of this has anything to do specifically with Suunto. There are plenty of computers that are not a Suunto that will "lock you out" if you omit any deco. I have an Oceanic Atom that will do so. The only point is to (again) illustrate that it is possible to have the training and experience to render it reasonable to have a criterion in your computer selection process that is for "won't ever lock me out."

    You do not have to be delusional to want that. If we're agreement on that specific point, then nothing more really need be said. And if we are not in agreement on that point, then, well, nothing more really need be said. :D
     

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