Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share

[DevonDiver]

Just one thing to add . . . if you're under stress, there is no particular reason why the line has to be spooled up as you go. You can clip it off and leave it, ascend on it, and pull it up from the surface.

I've considered this many times. It is a real option.

The reason I've avoided it is due to the risk of entanglement from the trailing line (especially in current). Coming up the line, with 2 divers close around it, is asking for the line to get caught around an ankle or fin buckle.

Obviously, such an entanglement would not prevent further ascent, but it would cause more stress and confusion. Possibly enough stress to cause full-blown panic or otherwise an error of judgement that causes greater danger.

 

[DaleC]

Seeing as this is basic scuba discussions I'll say I've never practiced that skill and don't intend to either. I just can't see the need for it in OW diving and feel it is a perfect way to turn a non event into a cluster F.

Practicing such a thing may seem like a good idea but I think it just convinces one into thinking that it would be a good idea (if you know what I mean).

Stop think act. Stop think act. Diving is not really about multitasking, even when things go south. I try not to ride the freight train of reduced options into the tunnel o vision where I think I have to do too many things all at once or else.. or else.. or else. I try to derail the panic cycle which, for me, means slow down.

Buddy OOA? Stop & donate a reg.
Need to ascend? shoot a bag.
Bag up? start ascending.

I'd like to know of a situation where one would need to do all three simultaneously.

OK, flame proof panties are on and ready to go!

 

[Troutmaster]

Dale,

Sometimes SCUBA is about multi-tasking. If you have to donate air and then ascend, you may need to shoot a bag while still air sharing. Once the bag is up, then make your ascent. But I agree with you 100%, Stop. Think. Act. Take your time and don't panic. Very solid advice.

To the OP, yes I do practice these skills.

As was said before, get really comfortable with each skill before you try two at once. When I started tech training I had a few hang-ups trying to put the skills together. Now I can air share, swim to where my deco bottle is, hook the bottle up to myself, shoot a bag and ascend to the MOD of the deco gas and then do a gas switch, with my buddy on my long hose the whole time. These are NOT basic skills, but when you learn to handle task loading in a controlled setting, it make things MUCH more managable when the turd hits the trubine for real.

 

[DevonDiver]

Buddy OOA? Stop & donate a reg.
Need to ascend? shoot a bag.
Bag up? start ascending.

I'd like to know of a situation where one would need to do all three simultaneously.

Here's one....

You are drift diving in an area of high current. You know the boat will be expecting to see your DSMB deployed before you leave the bottom at the end of the reef. The reef ends with an abrupt wall, beyond that is deep blue ocean and very strong current can push you kilometers distant in the time it takes to surface.

You are aware of these procedures and prepared for them. As you approach the end of your dive, you are pre-planning your critical DSMB deployment. You are approaching your rock-bottom gas levels...

Then you feel a tap on your shoulder. When you look around you see...... :shocked2:

If you can't deploy your bag before the end of the reef, you might become 'lost divers'. That kills people every year.

If you can't share air and immediately ascend, you and/or your buddy may drown.

Will you choose just one of these options.... decide which emergency is least likely to kill you?

Or will you decide to apply a multi-tasking joint solution?

 

[DaleC]

I think we are saying the same thing.

I know there is sometimes an element of multitasking involved but as I get older I have lost the notion that this is really a thing to be pursued intentionally. It usually just winds up in my doing two or three things half arsed.

Personally I don't see simple air sharing (donating a reg) to really be a skill (per se). The donation may require practice but once that's done it's just staying close and breathing. Buddy breathing is a skill, but I bet that's not what's being described here.

Ascending while air sharing may be a skill (coordinating bouyancy) and shooting a bag may be a skill but I don't see why someone would do both at the same time. To me that is asking for trouble. I personally would stop ascending, shoot a bag, and then resume ascending. Instead of practicing this skill I would also rather work as a team at understanding gas management so that each of us had a sufficient amount of gas to solve a problem at depth (shoot a bag) and then make a safe ascent. If a team has the gas there's no reason to shoot while ascending.

Here's the scenario I don't want to envision:

Diver one goes OOA

Diver two donates a reg

Diver one wants to head to the surface immediately

Even though there is no need, Diver two says OK, we'll shoot a bag as we go. Hold on!

Divers may or may not become entangled, embolized or bent.


Perhaps the OP can clarify whether they are BB or just donating a reg and/or moving up as they shoot the bag and what scenario this drill is intended for.

 

[DaleC]

Here's one....

You are drift diving in an area of high current. You know the boat will be expecting to see your DSMB deployed before you leave the bottom at the end of the reef. The reef ends with an abrupt wall, beyong that is blue ocean and very strong current can push you over a km distant in the time it takes to surface.

You are aware of these procedures and prepared for them. As you approach the end of your dive, you are pre-planning your critical DSMB deployment.

Then you feel a tap on your shoulder. When you look around you see...

If you can't deploy your bag before the end of the reef, you might become 'lost divers'. That kills people every year.

If you can't share air and immediately ascend, you and/or your buddy may drown.

Will you choose just one of these options.... decide which emergency is least likely to kill you?

Or will you decide to apply a multi-tasking joint solution?

I would: donate my reg (one to three seconds), shoot my bag and ascend.

I would not: donate my reg, begin ascending and shoot my bag as I was going up. I have enough air in reserve for such a thing, it does not matter if I shoot my bag and then ascend and I stand a far better chance of doing each correctly that way.

What does ascending while shooting the bag solve? And let's remember this is basic scuba. Why are we diving in those conditions again? If the boat knows there is a strong current they probably know where to look for my SMB too. Lastly, unless this is the same person with whom I practiced this advanced skill (if so why is she then going OOA on a high current drift dive. She should have been practicing gas management instead) all my training won't matter when that person blows it and embolizes us both.

 

[DevonDiver]

Personally I don't see simple air sharing (donating a reg) to really be a skill (per se). The donation may require practice but once that's done it's just staying close and breathing. Buddy breathing is a skill, but I bet that's not what's being described here.

I think there is a rule in diving (and life) that even the simplest things can become impossible if sufficiently task loaded and stressed.

What appears easy in training, in the pool or when done at a time of your choosing, can be unravelled when the circumstances are out of your control.

There's far too many fatal incident reports that show how 'simple air sharing' went catestrophically wrong.

Ascending while air sharing may be a skill (coordinating bouyancy) and shooting a bag may be a skill but I don't see why someone would do both at the same time. To me that is asking for trouble. I personally would stop ascending, shoot a bag, and then resume ascending.

I agree. As you can see from my earlier description of a real incident - stopping the ascent to deploy the DSMB is critical. However, that still counts as being 'on ascent'. In those 'simple' circumstances, the diver is task loaded by at least 3 factors:
1) Maintaining buoyancy/depth for themselves and/or the other diver.
2) Maintaining physical control of the other diver.
3) Deploy and inflate DSMB.

Those are the 'core' skills. Add to those any variations that could be caused by visibility, current, swell, other divers etc etc

 

[DaleC]

There's far too many fatal incident reports that show how 'simple air sharing' went catestrophically wrong.

This is why I would not want to attempt all three as the OP stated. I think we agree in principle with just some confusion as to what constitutes ascent. If it is as defined below then I can see your point and the validity in the drill. I saw ascent as moving up while in the act of deploying.

As you can see from my earlier description of a real incident - stopping the ascent to deploy the DSMB is critical. However, that still counts as being 'on ascent'.

Anyways, good discussion but I have to hit the hay. Hopefully the OP will clarify a few points and something more will come of it. Beats the "bungied wings of death" thread.

 

[TSandM]

Of course, how much you do and when will depend in part on how the situation is playing out.

If I've got a semi-panicked diver huffing away on the end of my long hose, I'm not going to want to dawdle at depth. You can pull the bag out of your pocket, unwrap it and prepare it for inflation while ascending, and then pause briefly to inflate it. I'm sure there are people with whom I dive who could do the whole thing neatly while ascending at a chosen rate; I'm not sure I'm one of them, and hope I don't have to find out!

In the other night's incident, I was going to deploy the bag at depth and then follow the line up -- but my husband wasn't panicked and I had very large gas reserves, so making the ascent as rapid as safe wasn't high on the critical list, and keeping matters controlled definitely was.

 

[danvolker]

I don't really get why the bag shooting is so important a skill for an OW diver....where I usually dive in Palm Beach, Fl , we have BIG current drift dives, and the norm is to have divers do their safety stop, then ascend and on surfacing, inflate a sausage if they are a long way from the boat....but usually, the boat will be nearby when they surface.

If you are on an anchored boat in a big current, I would question why....drifting is so much easier.

For more advanced divers, the bag shooting does not feel like much of a skill, so it is not really an issue.

For ascent, I think it is always better to do the 30 foot to surface part of the ascent with stops as a circling, horizontal body position , swimming part of the dive....you do circles around an imaginary center point, and watch your depth gauge to be certain you are staying in the depth range you want to be in....whether deco for a 280 dive, or just slow ascent after a 60 foot dive for around an hour, why would you not just do a simple circling ascent? It is easy, and there is no messing around with a lift bag...

Regards,
DanV