diver 85
Contributor
Quite often for us, training is the dive. That's how we know we'll be ready when a "Big" dive is scheduled.
All work & no play makes Jack a ------
Surface Marker Buoy and Air Share
- Thread starter Soakedlontra
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All work & no play makes Jack a ------
Rainer
Contributor
I've found that diving for fun is usually the best training for bigger dives. Sure, sometimes a bit of dedicated time is required to work on finessing a few crucial skills, but otherwise bottom time (ideally in varied conditions) is the best work up for any dives. If you're having to train that hard, something is usually wrong.
I'd suggest most try to enjoy their diving more.
OP
Soakedlontra
Contributor
Since the beginning of this thread I have practiced the shooting of the SMB once in bad visibility, with some current, it was almost night and the surface was rough. It was an interesting experience and went OK. The line got a bit all over the place, though.
During a different dive I practiced air share and control ascent once with other two divers. Sam, I and another local female diver. She has a standard jacket style BC and the octopus attached to the inflator hose (while Sam and I have a 5ft long hose and a necklace) . We took turns. After two attempts the other woman and I performed those skills OK (I was the needer). The only minor problem was that her major way to dump air from her BC was to operate the dump valve below her right collar bone and when I tried to hang on to her right D ring my hand interfered with her hand. Then I don't know why I became as light as cork in a second when we tried to ascend. The second time I hung onto her by holding the buckle of the lanyard that was attached to her camera and our ascent was smoother.
Sam and I had more problems. His buoyancy was a bit more erratic than mine and we ended up going up and down like a yo-yo. It took us two more tries to get a more smooth ascent.
Next time I practice air share with Sam or another buddy with a long hose I want to try not to hang on onto him/her by his/her D ring as we usually do. When we got the long hoses we never learned how to do air share properly really...well because in our OW class we used shorter hoses and ascent vertically.With longer hoses there is more flexibility.
During a different dive I practiced air share and control ascent once with other two divers. Sam, I and another local female diver. She has a standard jacket style BC and the octopus attached to the inflator hose (while Sam and I have a 5ft long hose and a necklace) . We took turns. After two attempts the other woman and I performed those skills OK (I was the needer). The only minor problem was that her major way to dump air from her BC was to operate the dump valve below her right collar bone and when I tried to hang on to her right D ring my hand interfered with her hand. Then I don't know why I became as light as cork in a second when we tried to ascend. The second time I hung onto her by holding the buckle of the lanyard that was attached to her camera and our ascent was smoother.
Sam and I had more problems. His buoyancy was a bit more erratic than mine and we ended up going up and down like a yo-yo. It took us two more tries to get a more smooth ascent.
Next time I practice air share with Sam or another buddy with a long hose I want to try not to hang on onto him/her by his/her D ring as we usually do. When we got the long hoses we never learned how to do air share properly really...well because in our OW class we used shorter hoses and ascent vertically.With longer hoses there is more flexibility.
Managing buoyancy while task-loaded by air-sharing or managing a bag is DEFINITELY a skill that requires practice. My guess is that, like me, you do primarily shore diving and virtually all your "ascents" are swimming upslope. I had to discipline myself to do some direct ascents, even though they meant yucky surface swims. And this is where skills practice dives, no matter how much folks make fun of them, are really useful. My guess is that, if you made it over for one of the Mukilteo Madness dives, you could find somebody who would practice ascents and air-sharing with you -- I won't be able to make the next several, because of my work schedule, or I'd volunteer.
And lest anybody think this kind of thing is overkill . . . I wrote up the incident we had the other night, where my husband felt the need to get off his own gas supply at 70 feet because it began to taste bad and he felt ill. It looked as though we were going to do a gas-sharing free ascent from 70 feet in the dark, which for me almost requires a bag shoot. In stressed circumstances like wondering what exactly is wrong with your husband underwater, you want skills like air-sharing ascents and bag shoots to be second nature, not something that's hit or miss.
And lest anybody think this kind of thing is overkill . . . I wrote up the incident we had the other night, where my husband felt the need to get off his own gas supply at 70 feet because it began to taste bad and he felt ill. It looked as though we were going to do a gas-sharing free ascent from 70 feet in the dark, which for me almost requires a bag shoot. In stressed circumstances like wondering what exactly is wrong with your husband underwater, you want skills like air-sharing ascents and bag shoots to be second nature, not something that's hit or miss.
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Not necessarily so. Having a bag to help guide your ascent can make a free-water ascent much easier. A few years back Uncle Pug and I took a pair of my students out on a deep dive. Uncle Pug was buddied with Penelope and I was buddied with Chris. Chris and I had cameras. At about 100 fsw, Penelope's reg started free-flowing. Uncle Pug donated his reg and turned off her air. A few seconds later he turned it back on and it continued to free-flow ... so he turned it off again, signaled an ascent, and shot a bag. We did a textbook ascent while they were sharing air with Uncle Pug managing the bag. The only thing I was upset about was that neither I nor Chris thought to put our cameras in video mode and record it ... would've made great class footage.
Back to the OP ... Betty ... you and Sam need to get completely comfortable with one skill first, then add the other. But I believe that, given our local conditions, it's a good skill to get comfortable with.
Would enjoy practicing it with ya if you guys want to head over for a week-end sometime ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
OP
Soakedlontra
Contributor
Well that's what we have been doing. But I think we should it more often.
Sam has a consistent issue with his buoyancy. He keeps telling me that as soon as he moves in a different way than usual his suit get positively buoyant in an instant. I keep telling him that he needs to address this issue in one way or the other. I have no idea of what to suggest him to try
His suit is different from mine. It seems to me that my shell suit is somewhat easier to get 'under control' than his neoprene one...
I will talk to Sam and then let you know about going through some skills together one of these week-ends. Thanks!
DevonDiver
N/A
I've had to do this on several occasions, where customers have run low on air. It can be highly task loading.
The first time I ever had to do a DSMB deployment, whilst sharing air, I had never practiced those skills combined. I had done literally hundreds of DSMB deployments and literally hundreds of practice AAS ascents. Doing them together was a lot more taxing. The 'real life factor' added a lot of stress too. Environmental factors, like current, added even more stress. Other considerations: like planning for surface conditions, danger from boats etc added even more stress. In addition, other divers in the group added, rather than reduced, stress through their behaviour.
At the time, I was a newly qualified instructor, just leading "experienced" fun divers on a deep dive in relatively strong current site. There were several dive boats on the surface and it would be dangerous to ascend without DSMB.
The diver concerned was a CMAS 2-star diver...and he was signalling 'ok' on air right up until he told me he was on 300psi. We were still at 28m. I opted to share air immediately, so that he could preserve his 300psi for emergencies and for BCD inflation at the surface. The current was strong and I was also having to virtually drag the low on air diver along with me...as he was going a bit 'passive' once on my air. Add to that the fact that I had to keep the rest of the group together in strong current. It was frustrating because several members of the group of 6 divers were completely unaware. I had called the dive, had a diver on my octopus, and I struggled to get their attention because they were photographing etc. What was worse - even when I did get their attention and had begun to ascend (up the side of a pinnacle), they kept stopping to take more photos!! I had a trainee divemaster in the group who was oblivious and in 'fun diver mode' - too busy finding critters for customers to take photos of. Luckily, they eventually 'switched on', noticed the problem and started helping me marshal the group on the ascent.
I opted to postpone the deployment of DSMB until we were shallower. My priority was to get the group up from depth. As the group got to 12m, I decided deploy the DSMB. I was glad it was an small capacity oral inflate...and I used finger reel. First, I had to make sure that the 'victim' had a good grip on my harness, so that we wouldn't separate when my hands were busy. I remember literally squeezing his hand around my harness to make sure he got the message. First, I made sure our (his) buoyancy was good. The big danger is that the person you are assisting can drag you up or down. Then I moved my SPG from my hip onto my chest d-ring...so that I could see it at a glance. Once I was happy with the situation, it only took a few seconds to deploy the DSMB. I was quite slick at this, because I did it on nearly every dive, every day.
The few seconds it took to organize myself was rewarded in the following ascent.
Once the DSMB was up, we continued to ascend until the safety stop. I can reel-in a finger reel single handed, which gave me a free arm to vent air on ascent, keep control of the diver and signal my group when necessary. When we reached the safety stop, I decided to let the diver go back onto his own air. The 300psi he had remaining was enough to last him 3min at 6m and still inflate his BCD. I had around 600psi remaining at that point, as the air consumption had been high, sharing air in strong current for the ascent. All the group were on their safety stop, most oblivious to anything and contentedly showing each other photos on their cameras.
At that point, there was a further complication. The trainee divemaster approached me and showed me the display on their dive computer... showing me the universal sign for 'confused'
At a glance... their computer had entered deco mode. They had never seen that before and thought it was "a computer display glitch or something". In the end, the entire group did an extended safety stop of 8 minutes, whilst the DMT decompressed. Because I had a diver still low on air, the DMT concerned got to practice air-sharing with them... I didn't want to send the group up without me, as there were numerous boats on the surface (they probably wouldn't recognize our boat), surface current, boat movement, swell....and I already believed the group was not 'switched on' and aware of risks. I wanted to keep control for their safety.
On the boat, the low on air diver said he just 'lost track' of his air and couldn't explain how it had gone from 'ok' to low so suddenly. I suspect he was giving false 'ok' signals, as he was too proud to be the one who cut the dive short (a relatively common problem amongst moderately experienced male divers).
The divemaster trainee had done several dives that morning that she hadn't told me about when we planned that dive. She hadn't thought about the impact of those dives on her NDLs, as she had "just gotten used to a routine of diving 4x as day" without thinking about the dives. She also didn't understand her dive computer and was mystified when the computer entered deco mode. She believed the computer had malfunctioned and was about to abort her safety stop to check out her computer on the boat!!!
Lessons Learned
1) Task loading can lead to exponential stress increase with each additional input.
2) Experienced divers can allow pride to skew their judgement and safe dive practices.
3) Dive leaders should physically check divers SPGs, wherever possible.
4) Divers can easily 'switch off' if they percieve that a dive guide is looking after them.
5) Divers can easily abdicate all responsibility for group and/or personal safety to the dive leader.
6) Dive leaders should not anticipate or rely upon assistance or awareness from other divers.
7) Divers need to be familiar with Emergency Deco procedures with their dive computers.
8) DSMB deployment needs to be second-nature and take seconds.
9) Finger reels can be used 1 handed.
10) (Trainee) Divemasters can sometimes be more hinderance than help.
11) Divers may prioritise personal dive enjoyment over someone else's emergency needs.
12) Dive pros must maintain emergency awareness, regardless of the 'tour duties' of a dive guide.
Specific DSMB Lessons1) If you only train to inflate DSMB using your AAS, then you will have no familiar options when your AAS is unavailable.
2) Finger reels offer simplicity, that decreases task loading on ascent.
3) Small capacity oral-inflate DSMBs are quick and easy to deploy, even from shallow.
4) Practice to manage an ascent with only one available hand.
5) A diver must be able to deploy and ascend a DSMB without assistance.
Specific AAS Lessons
1) The typical 'roman handshake' grip permanently occupies a rescuer's hand. This adds task loading and reduces flexibility. Where possible, get the OOA diver to grip directly onto your harness/BCD so that you have a free hand.
2) On several occasions, I've attached a diver directly to me using a double-ended boltsnap between chest d-rings. This has pros and cons, but gives certain control whilst preserving both hands free.
3) Longer AAS hoses provide a lot more flexibility. Less 'tugging' on the AAS means less stress for the 'victim'.
4) Don't lose overall group and situational awareness, when engaged in AAS assistance... if one is low/out of air, then others easily could be also.
5) Monitor your own air carefully when sharing air. Both divers are likely to have an elevated air consumption rate and that will drain your cylinder at a surprisingly fast rate. Have, or move, the SPG to a location where you can see it at a glance.
6) Buoyancy control is critical for both divers. The donor should be prepared (and able) to manage this if necessary. At worst, with a panicked diver, this can be almost identical to a controlled buoyant lift of an unresponsive casualty.
The first time I ever had to do a DSMB deployment, whilst sharing air, I had never practiced those skills combined. I had done literally hundreds of DSMB deployments and literally hundreds of practice AAS ascents. Doing them together was a lot more taxing. The 'real life factor' added a lot of stress too. Environmental factors, like current, added even more stress. Other considerations: like planning for surface conditions, danger from boats etc added even more stress. In addition, other divers in the group added, rather than reduced, stress through their behaviour.
At the time, I was a newly qualified instructor, just leading "experienced" fun divers on a deep dive in relatively strong current site. There were several dive boats on the surface and it would be dangerous to ascend without DSMB.
The diver concerned was a CMAS 2-star diver...and he was signalling 'ok' on air right up until he told me he was on 300psi. We were still at 28m. I opted to share air immediately, so that he could preserve his 300psi for emergencies and for BCD inflation at the surface. The current was strong and I was also having to virtually drag the low on air diver along with me...as he was going a bit 'passive' once on my air. Add to that the fact that I had to keep the rest of the group together in strong current. It was frustrating because several members of the group of 6 divers were completely unaware. I had called the dive, had a diver on my octopus, and I struggled to get their attention because they were photographing etc. What was worse - even when I did get their attention and had begun to ascend (up the side of a pinnacle), they kept stopping to take more photos!! I had a trainee divemaster in the group who was oblivious and in 'fun diver mode' - too busy finding critters for customers to take photos of. Luckily, they eventually 'switched on', noticed the problem and started helping me marshal the group on the ascent.
I opted to postpone the deployment of DSMB until we were shallower. My priority was to get the group up from depth. As the group got to 12m, I decided deploy the DSMB. I was glad it was an small capacity oral inflate...and I used finger reel. First, I had to make sure that the 'victim' had a good grip on my harness, so that we wouldn't separate when my hands were busy. I remember literally squeezing his hand around my harness to make sure he got the message. First, I made sure our (his) buoyancy was good. The big danger is that the person you are assisting can drag you up or down. Then I moved my SPG from my hip onto my chest d-ring...so that I could see it at a glance. Once I was happy with the situation, it only took a few seconds to deploy the DSMB. I was quite slick at this, because I did it on nearly every dive, every day.
The few seconds it took to organize myself was rewarded in the following ascent.
Once the DSMB was up, we continued to ascend until the safety stop. I can reel-in a finger reel single handed, which gave me a free arm to vent air on ascent, keep control of the diver and signal my group when necessary. When we reached the safety stop, I decided to let the diver go back onto his own air. The 300psi he had remaining was enough to last him 3min at 6m and still inflate his BCD. I had around 600psi remaining at that point, as the air consumption had been high, sharing air in strong current for the ascent. All the group were on their safety stop, most oblivious to anything and contentedly showing each other photos on their cameras.
At that point, there was a further complication. The trainee divemaster approached me and showed me the display on their dive computer... showing me the universal sign for 'confused'
At a glance... their computer had entered deco mode. They had never seen that before and thought it was "a computer display glitch or something". In the end, the entire group did an extended safety stop of 8 minutes, whilst the DMT decompressed. Because I had a diver still low on air, the DMT concerned got to practice air-sharing with them... I didn't want to send the group up without me, as there were numerous boats on the surface (they probably wouldn't recognize our boat), surface current, boat movement, swell....and I already believed the group was not 'switched on' and aware of risks. I wanted to keep control for their safety.
On the boat, the low on air diver said he just 'lost track' of his air and couldn't explain how it had gone from 'ok' to low so suddenly. I suspect he was giving false 'ok' signals, as he was too proud to be the one who cut the dive short (a relatively common problem amongst moderately experienced male divers).
The divemaster trainee had done several dives that morning that she hadn't told me about when we planned that dive. She hadn't thought about the impact of those dives on her NDLs, as she had "just gotten used to a routine of diving 4x as day" without thinking about the dives. She also didn't understand her dive computer and was mystified when the computer entered deco mode. She believed the computer had malfunctioned and was about to abort her safety stop to check out her computer on the boat!!!
Lessons Learned
1) Task loading can lead to exponential stress increase with each additional input.
2) Experienced divers can allow pride to skew their judgement and safe dive practices.
3) Dive leaders should physically check divers SPGs, wherever possible.
4) Divers can easily 'switch off' if they percieve that a dive guide is looking after them.
5) Divers can easily abdicate all responsibility for group and/or personal safety to the dive leader.
6) Dive leaders should not anticipate or rely upon assistance or awareness from other divers.
7) Divers need to be familiar with Emergency Deco procedures with their dive computers.
8) DSMB deployment needs to be second-nature and take seconds.
9) Finger reels can be used 1 handed.
10) (Trainee) Divemasters can sometimes be more hinderance than help.
11) Divers may prioritise personal dive enjoyment over someone else's emergency needs.
12) Dive pros must maintain emergency awareness, regardless of the 'tour duties' of a dive guide.
Specific DSMB Lessons1) If you only train to inflate DSMB using your AAS, then you will have no familiar options when your AAS is unavailable.
2) Finger reels offer simplicity, that decreases task loading on ascent.
3) Small capacity oral-inflate DSMBs are quick and easy to deploy, even from shallow.
4) Practice to manage an ascent with only one available hand.
5) A diver must be able to deploy and ascend a DSMB without assistance.
Specific AAS Lessons
1) The typical 'roman handshake' grip permanently occupies a rescuer's hand. This adds task loading and reduces flexibility. Where possible, get the OOA diver to grip directly onto your harness/BCD so that you have a free hand.
2) On several occasions, I've attached a diver directly to me using a double-ended boltsnap between chest d-rings. This has pros and cons, but gives certain control whilst preserving both hands free.
3) Longer AAS hoses provide a lot more flexibility. Less 'tugging' on the AAS means less stress for the 'victim'.
4) Don't lose overall group and situational awareness, when engaged in AAS assistance... if one is low/out of air, then others easily could be also.
5) Monitor your own air carefully when sharing air. Both divers are likely to have an elevated air consumption rate and that will drain your cylinder at a surprisingly fast rate. Have, or move, the SPG to a location where you can see it at a glance.
6) Buoyancy control is critical for both divers. The donor should be prepared (and able) to manage this if necessary. At worst, with a panicked diver, this can be almost identical to a controlled buoyant lift of an unresponsive casualty.
Ben_ca
Contributor
A lot of skills get very difficult when you do not have a stable platform to begin with. Trim and buoyancy will only get worse as you get task loaded (for most people).
May I suggest just practicing the basics... also if the basics are unclear maybe some time with an instructor (Bob
) or a class like Essentials/Fundies to introduce the proper long hose air share.I just finished a class where we were consistently shooting bags while sharing air... but it was a GUE Tech 1 class so everyone was pretty much dialed in.
Real World bag shoots - Diving in Anilao (Mainit Pt) one of the newer divers in the group was having difficulties with the current (fighting/fidgeting vs just relaxing and ridding it) and was uncomfortably lagging behind the group. I kept an eye on him and when he had enough he replied with Thumbs to my okey. Suddenly found myself having to ascend and shooting a bag... even though it was unplanned I was able to get it up and deployed with ease from all the practice at home. It was a lot easier in warm water... no gloves or hood and nice clear water. Oh also with the current as soon as we decided to surface we were getting dragged into blue water... so having a marker up was comforting to have, for us and the boat following our bubbles.
Just one thing to add . . . if you're under stress, there is no particular reason why the line has to be spooled up as you go. You can clip it off and leave it, ascend on it, and pull it up from the surface. It is much easier for the boat crew to wind up the line -- they're not having to manage their buoyancy while they do it, let alone an out of air diver!
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