Suicide Clips

[Rainer]

Bring forth the witnesses. There's a lot of hearsay and "it could happen" talk, but I have yet to hear any credible stories with names, places, and first-hand accounts. "I knew a guy who knew a guy" doesn't count.

I use a single gate-clip on my rig. It's on my camera tether (gate-clip on camera end, bolt-snap on anchor end) because I need to clip it on/off as quickly and easily as possible. If it ever entangled and was life threatening I'd cut it or unclip the other end (bolt-snap).

-Ben

See post 9.

 

[Gilldiver]

I also have been "Hooked up" by a gate clip. The other problem with them is that if you are cliped to a line that line could loop and ride up onto the gate and open it, letting whatever you had fall off. Had that happen to me too.

 

[ClayJar]

I doubt that anyone on this earth or in the seas has ever become entangled because of a gate clip, folklore and urban legend aside.

Let's see... I'm an anyone, and I've had both dryland and underwater entanglements with "gate clips" of various types. In my case, it was nothing but an annoyance, but you will no longer find them on any of my gear. I now exclusively use "bolt snaps" and "trigger snaps".

Trigger snaps are much easier to work with thick gloves, which would otherwise require large bolt snaps (as dry glove fingers love blocking the bolt opening on smaller bolt snaps). Plus, I've caught the line from a spool or the mesh from a bag behind the thumb bit of a bolt snap on more than one occasion -- a situation which is not possible with trigger snaps. My trigger snaps seem to be better at rejecting sand, salt, or other foreign material which may find its way into trigger/bolt snaps. (Oh, and to this day, on none of my dives and by none of the attempts I've devised have I been able to open any trigger snap I'm using other than by intentional manual actuation.)

(Note, by the way, that there are likely expensive bolt snaps with solid bolt-activation-thumb-nub-thingies, but all the ones I've laid hands on have always had a "notch" behind the thumb part of the bolt where you can catch thin line.)

 

[riguerin]

Without going to look it up I believe that one of the Doria deaths has been partly attributed to suicide clips.

It's the John Ormsby death. The incident is discussed in some detail in the opening chapter(s) of Deep Descent. The book includes pics of Ormsby just before the dive (depicting the belt with numerous suicide clips) as well as the recovered body (showing the entanglement with cables/wires).

 

[nereas]

I also have been "Hooked up" by a gate clip. The other problem with them is that if you are cliped to a line that line could loop and ride up onto the gate and open it, letting whatever you had fall off. Had that happen to me too.

This sounds really interesting. When were you clipped to a line?

 

[nereas]

It's the John Ormsby death. The incident is discussed in some detail in the opening chapter(s) of Deep Descent. It includes pics of Ormsby just before the dive (depicting the belt with numerous suicide clips) as well as the the recovered body (showing the entanglement with cables/wires).

How do you know the line fowling and entanglement happened pre- or post-mortem?

No one will very really know. Bodies roll around a lot when they are deceased and underwater.

It's sort of the same problem as with aliens. If you say that you never saw an alien, people believe you. If however you say that you saw an alien, nobody believes you. Either way, you cannot prove anything about aliens.

Or entanglements from gate clips.

 

[DeepBound]

I wouldn't get anywhere near the water or a string with one of those things attached to me!

I have two carabiners with "scuba.com" written on them.. ridiculous.

 

[rmediver2002]

When I started diving NJ wrecks, I was always warned off using a carabineer or "suicide clip" on your D-clips. The theory was that these things are an entanglement hazard. Fishing line or thin rope tends to slip in and becomes a serious problem. We were told to use bras bolt clips instead. They require actual effort to open so are less prone to line slipping in.

I am surprised that so many dive stores offer these (in different variants). Attached is a picture. Anyone actually use these when diving? Anyone hear or see any problems with these?

I use them all the time for tools and my knife on my dive harness, it is one of the most common type of clips used in commercial diving.

We use a stainless spinaker shackle for the umbilical connection to the harness but for tools we use the brass clips. They are cheap, fairly durable, and easy to use, and available everywhere.

I have never had a problem with entanglement with them and have not lost any tools with them. I did have a diver lose one of my knives with one once, at least we blamed it on the clip and not the diver...

That said I can understand the arguments against them previously mentioned in the thread, especially when your on a limited supply of air. I do not know that I would go as far as calling them suicide clips but there is nothing wrong with stacking the odds in your favor any way you can.

I would be interested in hearing about the accident mentioned, I have not read that book.

Jeff

 

[String]

Ive used them. Despite the risk of accidental snag its a lot easier to use with cold numb hands and thick gloves than a bolt snap.

I dont use them now but know many people that do purely as they're the easiest clip to operate with numb hands.

 

[Thalassamania]

It's the John Ormsby death. The incident is discussed in some detail in the opening chapter(s) of Deep Descent. The book includes pics of Ormsby just before the dive (depicting the belt with numerous suicide clips) as well as the recovered body (showing the entanglement with cables/wires).

To draw the conclusion that Ormsby died because of a clip is an extremely broad stretch. He was a dead man once he went into Gimbel's headfirst and overweighted, clip or no clip.