Question Subgravity Paragon or HOG System?

[Regulated]

Hello friends. I've recently returned to diving after a 26 year surface interval. I geared up for shore diving in Maui and was pleased with the 2022 Scubapro Level BC; it is comfortable for walking around with tank and integrated weights. It's basically a better version of what I learned on. I dove with 16 pounds of lead, AL80, 1 mm skin.

For boat diving and especially international travel, I'm starting to succumb to the SB siren call of BP/W for the simplicity and compactness. Bare bones DIR? Not there yet. One thing is certain: I have determined not to wear thick wetsuits and hoods ever again. We are talking warm sea water, a few times a year.

In summary: I am now a tropical vacation diver, a fairly fit manatee (orca?), recreational only, single tank only, AOW certified, focused on UW photography and the zen of diving. I'll use whatever tanks are typical at the destination - anything from AL80 to steel 120; intrinsic buoyancy will vary. Looking now at additional BC options. Any insights are appreciated.

The xDeep stuff is sexy yet pricey. Plain DIR is too bare bones. I tried a Zeagle Express Tech--the 24 pound U-shaped bladder is too small for my comfort zone and I'd need to add a bunch of stuff to make it work well. So in the "in between," I've looked at the Subgravity Paragon single tank package and the HOG system. Probably a 30-32 pound wing. Will opt for the front-adjustable harness to accommodate my bad rotator cuffs. No one in the area seems to stock them. So advice will be helpful.

Those who have tried these or others not mentioned, please weigh in. So to speak.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I can only speak about the harness as I use it for my rebreather. I like it and think it is quite easy to cinch/uncinch

 

[L13]

Given your description of your diving, a #24 wing should be enough if you are properly weighted. Your wing needs to float:

#5 for wetsuit crush (huge overestimate for 1mm wetsuit)
#8 for air carried in a 120 CF tank
#5 for other accessories(camera/flashlights/etc) that you add without adjusting weights
#18 total lift needed

The reason BC's have higher lift is because they might be used with more wetsuit for cold deep dives, or to compensate for over weighted diving.
the reason BP/W have higher lift is because more wet/drysuits + cold deep dives + more carried air + other gear that might be dropped and still need to hold a safety stop.

Also, what is missing from the Zeagle Express Tech? It seems pretty complete to me.

 

[The Chairman]

For travel, I use a Zeagle Express Tech. It's a hybrid BP&W and you can add all sorts of weight pockets. Far easier to travel with than a traditional BP&W, lighter, and just as simple. They often come with a deluxe harness, which I swap out for 2" standard webbing. Another amazing feature of the Express Tech is the ability to open up either arm when you unbuckle the waist. Makes it far easier for this old body to get into or out of.

 

[The Chairman]

For travel,

Actually, I use it all the time unless I need a mission specific solution (side mount, doubles, or CCR).

 

[lexvil]

For warm water I use the Aqua Lung Outlaw pretty cheap and very simple why burden yourself with bulk, a more simple approach is just rent where you get your tanks and lead if you only dive a few times per year.

 

[inquis]

Will opt for the front-adjustable harness to accommodate my bad rotator cuffs.

Don't put a one-piece harness on like a coat, contorting your arm backwards, leading with the hand. Instead, insert the elbow first. Zero stress on the shoulder. (It can be helpful to hold the strap, D-ring, or clipped off reg hose with the other hand.)

 

[Eric802]

Don't put a one-piece harness on like a coat, contorting your arm backwards, leading with the hand. Instead, insert the elbow first. Zero stress on the shoulder. (It can be helpful to hold the strap, D-ring, or clipped off reg hose with the other hand.)

That's a great tip! I've got a bum shoulder and getting into a BC is a pain (literally). Thanks!

 

[goldfishtornado]

My buddy and I both dive the HOG TBCS, about 50 dives on each of them.

As far as the harness goes, if you're less than 5'9" I think the XS/SM is fine, unless they updated the design. I find the extra rings on "Regular" and up sizes to get in the way. I don't particularly like the soft plate that is an option with that package. I find the extra threading on the hip belt to get in the way of gear/slider placement. Again on the XS/SM it's less of a problem. The soft plate pad also holds a decent amount of water, though dries reasonably quickly. The soft plate is also not compatible with a continuous threading if you ever change you mind about the shoulder adjusters. If you have the baggage capacity I think their stainless plate with the package is the cheapest I've seen.

For the wing, I also get 18 lbs being sufficient with my own calculation, consistent with L13. My buddy and I both have the 23lb wing, and have always had plenty of reserve buoyancy even wearing a much more compressible suit than your needs. They do have a 32 lb option, but IMO its overkill, especially if you plan to use the drop weights pockets to carry some of the weight. I think the built in stabilizing bars on the HOG wings are also sufficient, no need for a single tank adapter.

Looking at the price now for just the BC, I think the HOG package was more competitive a couple years ago? If you are certain a 20 lb class wing would be enough the Aqualung Outlaw for compactness or the Zeagle Express Tech for versatility seem more attractive, especially if you can source them locally. For a 30 lb class wing, I'm reasonably satisfied with the HOG package, but the SubGravity Paragon looks pretty shiny.

 

[Regulated]

Replies appreciated. And honored indeed to hear from The Chairman himself.

I’m 6’ and sadly, 240 pounds, with aspirations for 225. I get the weight and buoyancy calcs, thank you for those. Yet I’ve always wanted a bit of reserve in case of rough water, a need to assist another diver, a need to wear a wetsuit on rare occasion, or in case of overweighting courtesy of an insistent, well-intentioned divemaster.

The Zeagle would need 2 trim and 2 dumpable pockets, a crotch strap and some D rings. Kind of trivial in the scheme of things, I must admit.

Renting gear has never appealed to me. I don’t mind bringing my own.

Yes, the Subgravity stuff looks appealing! Yet based on The Chairman’s experience, I will give the Zeagle another look.

All insights appreciated, thanks.