Question Subgravity Paragon or HOG System?

[Jim Lapenta]

Replies appreciated. And honored indeed to hear from The Chairman himself.

I’m 6’ and sadly, 240 pounds, with aspirations for 225. I get the weight and buoyancy calcs, thank you for those. Yet I’ve always wanted a bit of reserve in case of rough water, a need to assist another diver, a need to wear a wetsuit on rare occasion, or in case of overweighting courtesy of an insistent, well-intentioned divemaster.

The Zeagle would need 2 trim and 2 dumpable pockets, a crotch strap and some D rings. Kind of trivial in the scheme of things, I must admit.

Renting gear has never appealed to me. I don’t mind bringing my own.

Yes, the Subgravity stuff looks appealing! Yet based on The Chairman’s experience, I will give the Zeagle another look.

All insights appreciated, thanks.

Note that you can order the express tech with a 35lb bladder. You are not stuck with the smaller one. I always use a 30-35 bladder. I've had 23s and never felt that in an emergency situation where I might have to support another diver that less than 30 was enough. In the HOG system you do not need to get the soft plate. At your size for warm water I'd recommend the l/XL harness with an aluminum plate and 32 lb wing. Put a weight pocket on each cam band next to the plate on opposite sides of each other and you'd have a rig suitable for any cylinder or diving conditions.
I've never seen the need to go smaller. The increased drag argument of a 30-35 vs a 23 is BS. Nobody I know swims fast enough to make that an issue. With the HOG wings using the bungee system, the 32 profile is actually about equal to the 23 and less when fully deflated.
If you don't ever see aiding another diver or using heavy steel tanks get the 23.
If you do see doing rescue at some point, diving cold water with a 7 mil or drysuit, get the 32. You'll be much happier.

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

" I've looked at the Subgravity Paragon single tank package and the HOG system. Probably a 30-32 pound wing. Will opt for the front-adjustable harness to accommodate my bad rotator cuffs. No one in the area seems to stock them. So advice will be helpful.

Those who have tried these or others not mentioned, please weigh in. So to speak.

I have a Sub Gravity aluminum back plate and 26 lb wing with the adjustable harness. I love their adjustable harness, it's clean, simple and no plastic parts, their wings don't require a single tank adapter. Their single tank package includes 2 stainless steel cam bands and 2 weight trim pockets. You get a choice of 3 stainless steel & 2 aluminum back plates, 5 wing lift capacities, and 2 harness types. They also have 3 weight pocket choices and have trim weight pockets that go on your back plate.
They are very quick and helpful at answering questions.
I'm going to get their 6mm stainless plate and 37 lb wing with adjustable harness for drysuit diving up here at home. Paragon Single Tank Package - SubGravity

 

[Regulated]

I have a Sub Gravity aluminum back plate and 26 lb wing with the adjustable harness. I love their adjustable harness, it's clean, simple and no plastic parts, their wings don't require a single tank adapter. Their single tank package includes 2 stainless steel cam bands and 2 weight trim pockets. You get a choice of 3 stainless steel & 2 aluminum back plates, 5 wing lift capacities, and 2 harness types. They also have 3 weight pocket choices and have trim weight pockets that go on your back plate.
They are very quick and helpful at answering questions.
I'm going to get their 6mm stainless plate and 37 lb wing with adjustable harness for drysuit diving up here at home. Paragon Single Tank Package - SubGravity

Your testimonial validates the Subgravity website (though they could stand to post a few more pics from various angles). How small does the Paragon pack? Does it require disassembly to fit in a carry-on? Do you use dumpable weights in addition to trim? Did you order direct or go through a LDS?

 

[Zef]

Your testimonial validates the Subgravity website (though they could stand to post a few more pics from various angles). How small does the Paragon pack? Does it require disassembly to fit in a carry-on? Do you use dumpable weights in addition to trim? Did you order direct or go through a LDS?

Disclaimer:
1. I personally do not dive a Sub-Gravity backplate but my wife and oldest daughter each have a Sub-Gravity short stainless steel plate.
2. We all started with non-adjustable/Hogarthian style harness. I have rigged my harness to be adjustable similar to the OMS Smartstream adjustable harness.

I can attest to the quality and customer service of both HOG and Sub-Gravity. My youngest daughter has a HOG aluminum plate with their 23lb wing. My oldest, as stated above, has a SG stainless steel plate (short) with a HOG 32lb wing. Both companies make/market high quality gear, are easy to contact by email and phone, and offer excellent customer service. I would not hesitate to buy gear from either company in the future as our needs arise.

A few years ago I was brainstorming ideas on how to make my shoulder straps adjustable. I came across the Sub-Gravity adjustable harness (Paragon) and really like the buckles they use. I was living in Belgium at the time and could not easily source them at first. By the time I was able to find a reasonable source for them I had already arrived at an alternative solution that was an amalgamation of ideas that came together looking at products at the Agir.se website (specifically their battery carrier strap, and their Harpa loop). It turns out that what I put together is very similar in concept but a bit different in execution to the OMS Smartstream harness, that I did not know existed at the time.

Although I am happy with what I have (Dive Rite stainless plate and 35lb Voyager XT wing), if I was able to go back in time with my current knowledge, to when I first purchased my backplate and harness, I would purchase the Subgravity stainless plate and adjustable Harness which is essentially the same as their Paragon package without the wing. I have nothing against Sub-Gravity's wings but I like the quality of my Voyager XT wing and Dive Rite offers a lifetime guarantee on it, but if you are looking for a "single source" package and are already considering the Paragon then I would recommend it.

As for packability...we are talking about a stiff metal plate that is approximately 16-inches long by approximately 10-inches wide, it ain't gonna get any smaller for packing purposes unless you have a shrink ray. The wing will detach easily enough to fold/roll for packing (I recommend removing the corrugated hose assembly from the wing when doing this). There are discussions on ScubaBoard and some videos on youtube for converting/attaching a backpack to the plate in order for it to be conveniently carried/worn and pass as carry-on luggage.

As for weighting/balast...my setup allows for both ditchable and non-ditchable weight depending on the exposure suit I am using (wetsuit, semi-dry, dry). You will need to dive whatever you purchase a few times to get things dialed in right for you.

As for purchasing our Sub-Gravity plates...we purchased through Dive Right in Scuba (DRIS). They don't list the Sub-Gravity plates on their website but they carry them in their brick and mortar shop and were happy to ship to us after a quick discussion via their website's chat feature followed by a phone call to give them my credit card number. I could have purchased directly from Sub-Gravity but the cost with shipping would have been the same. DRIS is another diving resource that provides great customer service.

As for purchasing our HOG gear...we purchased our HOG gear through Jim Lapenta (who posted earlier in this discussion thread). He is an authorized dealer/representative with a wealth of knowledge and he provided us with both information and confidence to outfit our daughter with her first BP/W a handful of years ago.

All in all, you can't go wrong with either system you are looking at.

Hope that helps at least a little bit.

-Z

 

[Regulated]

@Zef thank you for your very detailed post. Much appreciated.

 

[Regulated]

P.S. I meant to ask why stainless steel backplate. Yes, less lead, and closer to the thorax, yet at least 3 more pounds in the luggage than aluminum. Worth it?

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

Your testimonial validates the Subgravity website (though they could stand to post a few more pics from various angles). How small does the Paragon pack? Does it require disassembly to fit in a carry-on? Do you use dumpable weights in addition to trim? Did you order direct or go through a LDS?

I pack all my dive gear in checked luggage, but I would think could pack it in a carry on.
I just use 2 non ditch able weight pockets similar to these. DGX Gears Utility - Trim Weight Pocket {6 lb | 2.7 kg}
I bought mine from my local dive shop.

 

[goldfishtornado]

why stainless steel backplate

For the reasons you mentioned. Also for the same thickness stainless is tougher/stiffer, so less likely to get damaged if thrown around. Stainless is slightly more corrosion resistant, depending on grade. Finally stainless can be polished to very shiny, which can be appealing for people who like water .

IMO stainless prices are insane right now, and it's not worth it when combined with the added checked luggage weight.

 

[waterone]

P.S. I meant to ask why stainless steel backplate. Yes, less lead, and closer to the thorax, yet at least 3 more pounds in the luggage than aluminum. Worth it?

I have a few aluminum and a single steel plate. I like traveling everywhere with my steel plate more. Often I toss the plate in a carryon backpack in a pocket next to my laptop. I also usually have most of my gear in the backpack as well so I don't get charged any additional fees and I don't have to worry about my gear getting lost for a day or two.

 

[RobPNW]

I have not travelled with my new BP/W yet. Do people typically get an economy ticket and then do an add-on cost for a check-in bag of the gear? I need to put all my stuff in a bag and see how much it weighs...