Stiff vs. Flexible fins, flutter kick vs. frog kick

[raftingtigger]

they're still a little too wid

Not sure how it would work but have you tried gluing a strip of neoprene gasket material (or other such neutrally buoyant material) to the insides edges of the foot pocket? Might narrow them down for you.

 

[tursiops]

I believe it is easier to frog kick with a stiff fin vs. a flexible fin.

Yes, I agree. The power stroke on a frog kick is substantial...and a floppy fin just flops.

I also believe there are certain situations where a flutter kick is preferred and vice versa when a frog kick is preferred.

When is a flutter kick preferred? If the fin allows a decent frog kick, what would be a situation (other than swimming through a narrow slot) where a flutter kick would be preferred?

I swim a measured 100ft course a fair amount, while teaching Navigation. it takes me the same number of flutter kick-cycles (with my DR fins) as it does frog kicks...but there is more kicking-and-gliding with the frog kick....and I think therefore less energy expended.

 

[ronscuba]

Yes, I agree. The power stroke on a frog kick is substantial...and a floppy fin just flops.


When is a flutter kick preferred? If the fin allows a decent frog kick, what would be a situation (other than swimming through a narrow slot) where a flutter kick would be preferred?

I swim a measured 100ft course a fair amount, while teaching Navigation. it takes me the same number of flutter kick-cycles (with my DR fins) as it does frog kicks...but there is more kicking-and-gliding with the frog kick....and I think therefore less energy expended.

The flutter kick is taught when we learned to swim, so basically every scuba diver knows how to flutter kick. Cannot say the same for the frog kick. The flutter kick is also faster.

I shoot video. When shooting moving animal life I have to get to position and keep up with the animal. Sometimes against current. The animal is not going to sit and pose for me. I frequently need to swim fast. Flutter kick is preferred in these situations.

For fin stiffness, I like the bicycle gear analogy. If you had to pick 1 gear for all your bike riding. Your leg strength, endurance, type of biking and terrain you do. It's a compromise for 1 gear that fits you best.

 

[tursiops]

The flutter kick is taught when we learned to swim, so basically every scuba diver knows how to flutter kick. Cannot say the same for the frog kick. The flutter kick is also faster.

I shoot video. When shooting moving animal life I have to get to position and keep up with the animal. Sometimes against current. The animal is not going to sit and pose for me. I frequently need to swim fast. Flutter kick is preferred in these situations.

For fin stiffness, I like the bicycle gear analogy. If you had to pick 1 gear for all your bike riding. Your leg strength, endurance, type of biking and terrain you do. It's a compromise for 1 gear that fits you best.

I'm not sure about this. If it were true, then why do so many (especially newer) scuba divers tend to "bicycle" rather than scissor? And faster? Maybe, but I've not seen any studies on this.

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[ronscuba]

I'm not sure about this. If it were true, then why do so many (especially newer) scuba divers tend to "bicycle" rather than scissor? And faster? Maybe, but I've not seen any studies on this.

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To my knowledge the flutter kick is the 1st kick taught when you learn to swim and some never are instructed on how to frog kick. I also think it is easier to learn a decent flutter kick than a frog kick. I could be wrong, it's just my opinion.

I don't have any scientific studies to quote, but I am pretty sure the general consensus is the fastest swimming stroke is freestyle which uses the flutter kick. Swim from point A to point B as fast as you can, I think most people would flutter kick.

Point of the thread is choosing the type of fin flexibility that suits you and your kicking style best. For some that is a stiff fin and frog kick, for me it's a flutter kick and a softer fin.

 

[tursiops]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I agree, the flutter kick is learned when you learn to swim. But it is done so poorly by most new scuba divers it looks more like they are riding a bicycle.

What is fastest for a swimmer may not carry over to what is fastest for a scuba diver.

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[tomfcrist]

That bicycle looking garbage isn't fast when swimming either. It generally shows that the diver can't swim for ****....which should be obvious when they have to meet the swim ability pre requisite.

Flutter kicks will always be faster than a frog kick when both are done properly. Each has thier place in the divers toolbag.

 

[uncfnp]

Since part of the technique for frog is a glide phase it seems counterintuitive that it would be faster than a flutter kick or as effective against a strong current. I know that for me personally it is not.

 

[Kattikan]

That bicycle looking garbage isn't fast when swimming either. It generally shows that the diver can't swim for ****....which should be obvious when they have to meet the swim ability pre requisite.

Flutter kicks will always be faster than a frog kick when both are done properly. Each has thier place in the divers toolbag.

I agree with you. I've seen a lot of people swimming without using their legs and when they need to do it underwater they start to "use the bicycle" .

Mark
bestdivingstuff.com

 

[Lorenzoid]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I agree, the flutter kick is learned when you learn to swim. But it is done so poorly by most new scuba divers it looks more like they are riding a bicycle.

Eh? It's been 17 years, but I seem to recall my PADI instructor calling the propulsion technique we were being taught "the bicycle kick," and being taught that it is similar to a surface swimmer's flutter kick except that you should flex at the knees and hips. In other words, my scuba instructor did not teach the same "flutter kick" as my childhood swim instructor, though the same term was used.

Much later, my GUE instructor taught yet another "flutter kick," where you don't flex the hips at all, but rather do all the flexing at the knees.