Stewart Warner/Kidde Compressor and moisture seperator questions (Home mixing)

[pescador775]

I guess I spent about $1500 buying components, overhauling the pump and assembling the basic compressor. The resulting machine weighs the same as the Coltri (MaxAir) portable. However, the Kidde setup includes a steel crash frame and some other features, like 4.2 cfm compared to the Coltri 3.3 cfm. In other words, the Kidde can fill an S80 in 18.5 minutes while the Coltri takes about 25 minutes (24 minutes for the Bauer Junior). Even though the weights are the same, the Kidde is more compact than the Coltri. The Kidde shown in the photos includes two mechanical separators and a full size final filter. Speaking of the filter, my next post will include a description and pics of a DIY filter insert. The original inserts (cartridge) were made by American Bristol which is defunct. Those cartridges are no longer available. The Lawrence Factor replacement is nice, and well made, but is skimpy. It contains only 8 cu in of media. My homemade is an improvement on the original insert and contains 17 cu in of media, full triplex pack like the commercial ones.

 

[pescador775]

Here are several prototypes. All are good enough to use. To give a sense of scale, the homemade filter cartridges are 2" dia and about 9" height. They are made of aluminum tubing with 1/16" wall thickness, cut off with a Ridgid tubing cutter. The end caps are either fabricated from aluminum 1/8" sheet or are simply the plastic ends removed from old plastic filters recovered from original American Bristol filters. The aluminum bottom end caps are cut from 1/8 sheet with a hole saw. They are ground to the exact dimension by chucking in a drill and turning against a coarse file or sanding block which is held in a vise. The bottom caps are then soldered in place. The plastic bottom cap is glued and held with screws. The top caps are a press fit and O ring sealed. Not shown is a spring which fits over the nipple and exerts pressure on the top cap. The handle on top is made from spearfisherman's monofilament and is to aid in removal of the cap. Average cost to fill one of these with fresh chemicals-charcoal, hopcalite and 13X- is about $10. Most of this cost is the hopcalite which costs $108/quart. Vaporshell 13X is $12/quart. Activated charcoal costs little to nothing on the net (EBay). The last time that I priced a Bristol cartridge, it was $45.

 

[chequenino]

First of all, I wouldlike to thank you for answering my questions in an e-mail a few weeks ago.
I bought a Honda gas engine 5HP which I connected to a small Walter Kidde compressor 3.5cfm. From the output of the compressor I connected a 15 foot coil to a water /oil separator using themlaws of thermodynamics in order to remove part of the heat that was produced by the compression.
Now I need your help to put together a filtration system. As you know, this is one of the most important parts of the project that I am doing. I have spoken to people at Nuvair and they were very kind and willing to help me but I would like to explore other vendors in terms of quality and prices.
Please send me any company names that you would recommend as well as your suggestions on assembling the filtration system. For example, where should I connect the back pressure valve?
I look forward to learning as much information as I can from you and your experiences.
If I can ever help you with anything related to thermodynamics, please to do not hesitate to contact me.
Thank you for your help.
Regis

 

[pescador775]

Thanks, I responded in PM.
Pesky

 

[milsec]

"I personally beleived there should be have a certain nunmber of kidde fan still alive in the world, since these stuff need some knowledge to be able to use it. but I can feel with all the resouces seems became little and less at now, so, I deeply expect if some one who is the kidde expert (i.e. like you) can be stand up and set up a "kidde group" in the internet and create a plateform to help all the kidde fan to get or sharing all the valueable experience.!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes... there are more people than you can count on your fingers and toes.

I have helped 3 people set up WK compressors (through the i-net) from Pescador's mentoring, and my personal experience. I agree that some kind of Walter Kidde / SW/ Cornelius website needs to be set up, as a stockpile of knowledge!

I have been collecting pictures and data of various styles of surplus compressors.

Thinking of setting up some kind of website (non-profit) to display the info i have aquired... my computer skills are new, but growing fast, could use help.

Dave W ...Toledo OH USA

 

[pp-1-3-5-7-9]

I have helped 3 people set up WK compressors (through the i-net) from Pescador's mentoring, and my personal experience. I agree that some kind of Walter Kidde / SW/ Cornelius website needs to be set up, as a stockpile of knowledge!

I have been collecting pictures and data of various styles of surplus compressors.

Thinking of setting up some kind of website (non-profit) to display the info i have aquired... my computer skills are new, but growing fast, could use help.

Dave W ...Toledo OH USA[/QUOTE]

Hi ! Dave,

It's nice have learned with that you are thinking of setting up some kind of webside to contribute your efforts to all of the fans of walter Kidde / SW / Cornelius , and I am indeed and looking forward to seeing your Web can be spread out in soon.

If there have anything I can support or do it for you please just don't hesitated to let me know it , and I shall do all my best.

As my understand there have some Webs (e.g. "Google Groups" ) which have offer a very good plateform for fans to using it, or you have any better ideals to setting up the Web ?

Peter

 

[pp-1-3-5-7-9]

Hi ! Pesky,

With very happy to heard about Dave he is thinking about to setting up a Web for Walter Kidde / SW / Cornelius fans, how do you think ?

Peter

 

[pescador775]

Hi, Peter, an EMail list was set up by a guy in Denmark but it did not get traction. In theory, the web idea sounds good. There are many issues and ideas that swirl around these little compressors because they are surplus material in various states of repair ranging from brand new to decrepit. Converting the basic pump to a functioning compressor allows for a broad range of solutions, all of which have something to contribute to the discussion. A few years ago, many of these small, powerful units showed up on EBay.

The most pressing question from the buyers of these pumps was "how do I adapt the Kidde to a motor or engine?" There are two primary approaches, direct or indirect drive. The four stage, 4 cfm pump used with hydraulic motor has clockwise rotation (at the fan) making it necessary to use indirect drive (pulley and belt). Several solutions are in use. The neatest that I have ever seen, and used, is the custom made drive adapter made by my friend in California, Gunnar. Essentially, it is an aluminum casting made to his design. It is a single cast unit consisting of a housing for the bearings and shaft and two "legs". very strong. The casting is bored and machined to accept the splined shaft with two bearings. The adapter's spline bolts right up to the Kidde with four bolts. The adapter serves to drive the pump via a pulley wheel attached to the outboard end of the adapter shaft. On the bottom of the casting are two "legs" which are bolted down. Gunnar has a few of these left but he is sitting on them like a "penguin setting on eggs". None for sale. However, if there were enough interest I think that a small order, say 20, of these could be cast somewhere. Then, it would be a matter of machining the splined shafts, buying some bearings, and assembling the whole adapter.

One of the big questions on a Kidde list would be "where to get parts?". Unfortunately, there is no good answer. However, when parts become available (usually in the form of obscure sales of partial pumps) then the word could get around more readily in the group.

I have received some interesting private communications from Kidde rebuilders, guys who have basic machine skills and the like. I mean, there are a lot of folks, potentially, to contribute. You are a prime example. I've never seen a more automated compressor than yours, all DIY.

I don't know anything about computers, except I can surf for a few minutes before falling out the chair. I don't see myself as a "leader" or anything of the sort but I do like to chat about DIY stuff, and the Kidde pump, because of its watchlike design and confounding intricacies, is good material for a lively discussion.

Pesky

 

[pp-1-3-5-7-9]

Thank you for your information, In originally I supposed Dave he is in the US because he has leaved 'Telendo OH USA' at the end of his message, now I know he is from Denmark.

You are right, "How do I adapt the Kidde to a motor or engine?" this question is the most of the Kidde new owener have had , I also have been facing same question when I accquried my last dc motor driven 4cfm kidde, due to a 28 vdc 200 A power supply is not easy to solved, finally I decided to convert this kidde by using a pulley and drive either by a gas engine or commercial AC motor, this job finally is done by a machine workshop and I paid for it, and the compressor was fixed on a rack body which is from an useless cornelius 2 cfm compressor.

At present time, I just doing some modification for my 2 cfm kidde, this kidde originally driven by an "INT" duty aircraft motor and only can be run for a short time because of the motor temperature will rising up very quickly and caused the thermal protector cutting out the power and can't be run it continuously , Therefore I have using a micro lathe and a micro milling machine to get the modification job done, the way is I created some air flow holes on the motor housing as well as fabricated a centrifugal type of fan ( it's built from an aluminum bar ) attached on the motor extended shaft, the others I also have made some changes on the motor gear reducing box to allowing the chamber can be hold a certain level of lube oil for the reducing gear to get a better lubrication ( I did same thing for my 4 CFM Kidde too to replace the original way by used of grease lube ). so far the testing result is not bad (it's seems working, but I need more time to proved it), except the moisture separator has to be modified due to the auto drain motor is not working.

Yeah, last time Ekarais he been talking about his kidde with oil leakage problem in the thread of "having his own compressor", after this time I worked on the gear box chamber, It just lead me thinking about and suspect the Ekarais' kidde oil leakage case may caused by the orifice plug on the crankshaft get partially or totally blocked, when this orifice plug get blocked by whatever reasons the compressor blowby function will have a trouble at the same time, and this situation will make inside of the compressor ( crankshaft chamber ) building up a pressure and goes up in continuously when it operating , then the lube oil seems very easily to get pushing out from the root of the first stage cylinder because of the inside of the compressor with pressurized plus the 1st stage cylinder has the largest diameter compared with the others stage. Otherwise, if without a certain pressure created in the inside of the compressor the lube oil should not be happen with such serious oil leakage problem.

Even you don't see youself as a " leader" for the kidde folks, but from you efforts in the past for the kidde folks, I personally still acknowledge you are the learder.

Peter

 

[pescador775]

Hey, Peter and Dave, good to hear from you.
Dave is not the guy from Denmark. The Danish guy is named "Detlaff".
The 2 and 3 gen pump crankshafts are drilled for blowby gas, that is correct. However, only the new, generation 3 compressors use these as the primary blowby port. The second generation pumps have positive crankcase ventilation, and the drilled shaft is used only for supplying gas to the lower flange where one can attach a flow meter. It's a test port. Ekarais had a 2nd gen pump and I never could figure out what caused that problem. I have never heard of it before or since.