Stewart Warner/Kidde Compressor and moisture seperator questions (Home mixing)

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More photos, the attached is my core Kidde (4cfm) and backup one Kidde (2cfm), the core one has an auto drain and auto stop modified, it's done by add one "cornelius" moisture separator plus 2 timer which are driven by a 24vdc power supply). also you can see a black box located underneath the drive motor which is the oil pressure sensing unit, when the oil pump get failed, oil filter get blocked or the sump without a sufficent quantity of lube oil, these situation will caused the oil pressure drop to a certain level even no pressure during the operation, when the problem get happened then the device will send out a signal to the power controller to cut out the power to protect the compressor from a damaged. I really love these stuff because they had bring me a lot fun.
 
Very impessive. The 4 cfm looks to be a shipboard system, Raytheon, for cooling infrared sensors. What kind of motor? The orginals had 400 volt/400cps, I think. If I remember right, they were also used for barrel clearing.
 
In actually, I have no ideal about this stuff for what kind of application in originally, even I been spent a lot of time on many resources to figure out of it but just still in vein. basically it was I aquired in about 20 years ago in locally, to the spec of the motor since the original motor plate was gone when this unit reached to my hand, so I am not sured the correct spec of this motor, but from the gear ratio on the transimission system I beleived it's run for 400 hz, also through I tested it I also beleived it's used 200Vac 3 phase, and according to the drawing current test resulted I supposed it's a 3.5hp rated motor.

Due to the power source problem , therefore it been stayed in my storage room for quite long time, until I found an suitable frequency converter device, then it's start to serve me till now. this unit is quite complete - moisture separator, back pressure valve, relief valve, check valve , oil pressure sensing unit even the filter canister all are included, also I have found out that it's a total frash one I beleived this unit should never been put on the service when it get released out, this conclusion is base on I have found the grease used in the gear box still remain in it original pure white color without any changed also the first stage cylinder still with the machined marker. anyway, this is my most sweet one HPA compressor.
 
Those are nice units, very costly construction. It's definitely a ship system and the motor should be 400 volts in the original configuration. I guess they could be wired for 200/3ph.Those that show up for sale from the govt were never used, new surplus spare parts. It's interesting, the systems that I've seen were built in the 1970-85 period but the pumps are all 1960 vintage. Somebody, Kidde maybe, must have sequestered a supply of those 2nd gen pumps with the right hand oil tank. Later, similar units, with 28 volt motors and 3rd gen pumps were built for use in armored vehicles. Meggitt still supplies shipboard compressors but they are the 6 cfm type which are down rated to 4.7 cfm for some reason. It may have to do with the motor speed. The original 6 cfm turned at 4200 rpm.

I would like to know the details of how you added controls and connected the various wires and plugs. I understand that the oil pressure switch is standard equipment but would not know how to make it work. I believe those are four pin connectors at the switch, you could start there.
 
One more thing, one well known personality who sells compressors objected to the noise produced by the Kidde. How do you find the noise level?
 
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Here you go ! the above attached photos includind the 2 timers I used in my kidde, oil pressure sensing device wiring diagram, the connection wiring and a digital sound level meter as your reference.

Basically the whole wiring is very sample, I have show it in the connection wiring, even you can have the P/N of the timer from these photos, but one of the timer (3 minutes type) been modified to 10 times (30 minutes type ) by me to meet my requirement, this timer are using R.C. circuit design basis, so it's very easy to done it just changed the "R" with a correct valve of resistor. but I supposed you may can get same series but 30 minutes type timer from the maker directly with no problem. the reason why I decided to choose this series of timer is they are use 24vdc power ( very close to the oil pressure sensing unit and the drain valve used one 28 vdc, and easy on the power preparation ), small size but with a 7A current rated ( this number can be drive the drain valve coil of the "cornelius" moisture separator in very easy ) feature.

With regard to the oil pressure sensing device, it's icluding a thermal type timer in inside of the box, it run with 28vdc in originally but just no problem to use 24vdc power, the differece is when it using 24vdc power the time counting will get a little delay, this is because the inside heater need more time to reach the target temperature. normally this old type timer is very reliable also it has a screw hole and can be made an adjustment, for my case I have setted the delay time is around in 5 seconds. the reason why this oil pressure sensing unit needed this timer is that, when we turn on the compressor the oil pressure will need some time to reached the normal operating pressure level from the initial zero point , so, this timer are needed to prevent this window period to missed shountdown the compressor ( let us see when we turn on the power the pin 2 and 7 will have a temporarily closed until the time setting on the timer have get reached, but at the same time since the oil pump were already built up a safety level of the oil pressure and made the pressure switch actuated before the timer pin 2 and 7 are turned to an open condition). basically you still can use a model timer to replace it. both of pneumatic pressure swith and the oil pressure switch are connected in series way to the AC power source to to play as safety /auto stop control.

To the noise level measuring, I just have no digital sound level meter (pls refer to the attached photo) to do it, but this kind of instrument are been widely used for measure and judge the noise level, and you may asking the local EPA for the detail of this kind of instrument. for your information that compared a Bauer model VARIOS V2B I used in before with the my current kidde, I would say the Kidde is more comfortable to me. By the way I forgot to mention my discovery, I have found with that, same compressor unit but using different form of intake filter device will caused different noise generated, that means choose a right one intake filter (may be in size or shape) device will make people' ear happy with it. I beleived there have no standard noise will out the same compressor but just depend on their intake tunnel various combination (i.e. expension tube used or filter chamber size and shape design), I personally beleived except the machine itself with a fix noise come out from their operation, but the intake tunnel also contributed a certain level of noise. because of a resonance reason therefore choosed different combination will be resulted the board frequency and level generation with a shift.

The 6 cfm kidde you have mentioned I been saw it from the internet, it's 5 stage designed (supposed it should be more powerful, since I been saw a big 5 stage compreesor for aircraft ground service used and it's 6000 psi rated ) and with vertical designed. I am not sure if this stuff is same as you have talking about ?
 
Thanks very much for the diagrams, etc. Concerning the noise level, I found the same, using an intake with the right amount of muffling effect, keeps the noise level very reasonable.

I should explain about English usage, "how do you find the noise level" can mean two things, eg, how can it be determined (measured) or what is your opinion of the noise level. In any case, the noise dB meter is the right way to argue the point.
 
It's my pleasure to sharing it with all my friend.

In actually, I do understand what is your means, but since my English is not good enough to express my ideal in flawless even I had made some mistake in my reply. anyway, I shall be do more pratice to avoid same thing always get happened.

How do you feel the noise level from the kidde and the others ( be use similar output capacity for a comparation ) ?
 
My opinion is that noise is difficult to compare, but..... The larger, slower turning compressors make knocking and clicking sounds and shake a lot where the Kidde produces a smooth "burrrr". Overall, the Kidde seems a bit softer and nicer because it has no vibration. Unlike the Bauers, and three stages in general, the Kidde is dynamically balanced and one knows it must be designed just so because otherwise the vibrations would be transmitted in the aircraft where many are installed. Afterall, when these compressors were originially selected, the military contract was for installation in the F86, America's first combat jet fighter.

Otherwise, gas engine installations DO have significant vibration and are quite noisy. Vibration is caused when the engine pulses and the compressor pulses are not aligned. After all, the typical engine has ONE cylinder and the compressor has FOUR. Vibration is significantly reduced at high engine/pump speeds and, of course, increased at low speeds, so one should run the engine at about 3400 rpm. (Just think of a polygon, the more sides that it is given, the more it resembles a smooth circle). Anti vibration measures are this: Attach bracket from engine cylinder head bolt to frame. Attach bracket from compressor mounting bolt to engine side bolt. Install rubber "feet" on frame. Some may wonder why I stay with the old style Briggs engine. (The Kidde does need somewhat more than 5 hp). It has to do with the low profile of the engine and the ease of attaching the anti vibration brackets. The brackets are just strips of 1/8" stainless steel, bent to the correct angle but they make a difference. Less chance of something coming loose or braking. The frame itself is all steel, welded. Total weight of setup is about 85 lbs.
 

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