Steel tank ops - a comparison between Living Underwater and Aldora

[MMM]

Dave, I am not a PADI DM so I asked a fellow moderator who is a PADI DM instructor. He said "I can find nothing in the Dive Master Course Presentation Notes 2010 Version 2.0 or 2014 Instructor Manual that supports his position that DM’s are required to keep a group together. DMs don’t even have to be in the water!" If Christi and my friend are both wrong, perhaps you can quote from the DM instruction manual where it states divers need to stay together and ascend together with the DM's SMB and this could be cleared up.

I could understand if the notes said "it is recommended that divers surface as buddy pairs with an SMB deployed". I also understand that you have made the decision that Aldora divers won't. (Well at least that is your preference and policy anyway...I did one dive on this trip where a LOA buddy pair refused to use the DM's offered hose and told the DM they were ascending on their own...and did so. SMBs but no spools. DM was pissed and they weren't on the so-called advanced boat the next day. FWIW, I read this policy on your website so was aware if it; these divers said they were unaware of the policy as it hadn't been mentioned in the briefing.)

And Christi, you are wrong!

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[ronkoplus]

Thank you for your valuable input. I (wife and I) dove 12 times (x2 divers) with Aldora last winter. On the second day we had a mismatch of divers on the dive boat. Yes, I was angry and disappointed about the bottom time and total dive. Actually, we were able to mix up the group on the second AM dive and really only had a problem with the first dive. That afternoon I went to the office. I explained the situation and what we hoped for in our dive trips. We had full bottom times and memorable dives from Devil's Throat to Barracuda for the rest of our trips. Beside that, we visited with other divers staying at Villa Aldora. (We did not stay there.) They will be our #1 choice because of the complete service and attention we received. I do appreciate the input about the other dive shops that match this level.

 

[lionfish-eater]

Please do not feed the trolls.

Let's keep one thread on topic.

Start a new thread to discuss shops that have different ascent practices.

Accidents happen and can happen on any boat at anytime.

Play nice.

 

[cvchief]

.... the group to stay together during all phases of the dive (Like the PADI DM manual says), .....


Dave Dilehay
Aldora Divers

Well, I don't know where Dave falls, but he did say that the group is supposed to stay together. He didn't say it was the DM's job to do that, though he did say it was in the DM manual. Might that reconcile the two positions?

---------- Post added July 14th, 2014 at 09:51 PM ----------

Accidents happen and can happen on any boat at anytime.

Play nice.

Is that like saying don't wear a seatbelt, because people wearing seat belts can get killed too?

Hey but I am all in on the play nice. This is teetering on the edge of ugly....

 

[MMM]

How did you get the idea that we are talking about novice divers? If you are talking about my group, they were supposedly advanced. If you are talking about the Papa Hog's group, I don't know that their ability level has been established much less relevant to the accident.

Do any dive op owners think that it is a good idea to let novice divers ascend alone? While they can easily learn the things to look and listen for, teaching them by a DM/instructor seems far safer.

 

[Ron Lee]

How did you get the idea that we are talking about novice divers? If you are talking about my group, they were supposedly advanced. If you are talking about the Papa Hog's group, I don't know that their ability level has been established.

We are discussing beaucoup topics and non-group ascents is one. Are novice divers ascending alone a good idea....or should they ascend with the d?

 

[MMM]

I would suggest that while we may be talking about non-group ascents, the subject of novice divers ascending alone is not part of that discussion and is off-topic. I know this is a pet subject of yours but I don't believe it is relevant to this thread. Of course, since I started it, I cannot moderate it, so will leave it at that.

We are discussing beaucoup topics and non-group ascents is one. Are novice divers ascending alone a good idea....or should they ascend with the d?

 

[Mossman]

Please do not feed the trolls.

Let's keep one thread on topic.

Start a new thread to discuss shops that have different ascent practices.

Accidents happen and can happen on any boat at anytime.

Play nice.

I don't think it's fair to call Mr. Dillehay a troll. After all, he's merely defending a policy that he believes to be the only safe way to dive in Cozumel, regardless of how many other dive ops have proven him wrong over the years.

If you want to start a new thread to discuss shops that have different ascent practices, you're welcome to. This is a thread that was discussing the differences between Aldora and Living Underwater and one of the differences is the ascent practice. So discussing the merits of different ascent practices is obviously on topic. Why Mr. Dillehay chose to bring up the tragedy of the poor woman who lost her leg and claim that it somehow had something to do with his policy of a group ascent I have no idea, but it doesn't bother me and I don't feel it necessarily qualified him as a troll. If it bothers you, perhaps you need to find another venue in which to call people names. This is a moderated forum and the moderators do an excellent job IMO, I don't believe they need your "help" in order to do their jobs besides using the Report Post function if you feel the TOS have been violated in any way.

All I know is that when I dove with Aldora, the DM did attempt to keep the group together on one dive by demanding everyone hold hands. I thought that unwise, especially given that the DM was bent on kicking against a current too strong to kick against, so I safely aborted the dive with my buddy. Whereas with Living Underwater, I have never been asked to hold anyone's hand, nor have I been asked to kick against a current too strong to kick against. On the bright side, neither any of the Aldora boats nor the Jewfish has ever cut off any of my limbs and I appreciate that.

The fact that accidents happen and can happen on any boat at anytime is clearly off-topic as I don't believe anyone was comparing accidents aboard Aldora boats to accidents on the Jewfish. Perhaps you should start another thread to discuss that notion. Otherwise someone may call you a troll. But it won't be me.

 

[MMM]

Whereas with Living Underwater, I have never been asked to hold anyone's hand,

Closest I have come is after ascent being told to hang onto the tank valve of another other diver and form a chain until the boat found us. It was under VERY bad conditions and have only ever had it happen twice. Jeremy remembered the first time when it happened 10 years later.

 

[Mossman]

Closest I have come is after ascent being told to hang onto the tank valve of another other diver and form a chain until the boat found us. It was under VERY bad conditions and have only ever had it happen twice. Jeremy remembered the first time when it happened 10 years later.

That's something I really don't like. It's too easy for one diver to panic and push the other diver underwater. Which might cause the other diver to panic and then push the next diver underwater and so on and so on. A chain reaction. Much better to simply hold hands like Aldora does

---------- Post added July 14th, 2014 at 06:57 PM ----------

I would suggest that while we may be talking about non-group ascents, the subject of novice divers ascending alone is not part of that discussion and is off-topic. I know this is a pet subject of yours but I don't believe it is relevant to this thread. Of course, since I started it, I cannot moderate it, so will leave it at that.

Please don't feed the trolls. And I'm not calling Ron a troll because he insists on pushing his pet topic when it's off-topic, I call him a troll because he wears those long black socks