Steel tank ops - a comparison between Living Underwater and Aldora

[DjDiverDan]

i have wondered about that accident. Was she alone on the surface? Was she with the DM,s marker buoy? I think it would be safe to send divers up independently if Cozumel DM,s used a decent size SMB instead of those wimpy 3 footers with an inch or two of girth. I personally carry a 6 footer with a girth at least double what I see the DM,s use. So maybe the question should be " I wonder what would have happened if I was next to a marker that was more visible.

tom

I may be remembering wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the recent accident was not technically a diving accident - the diver was on the boat, standing on the side gunwale, and fell off the boat as it was turning. The boat captain could not react quickly enough, the boat continued turning, and turned right into her. Not relevant to a discussion about whether or not all divers should surface together, or all should inflate and deploy SMBs before surfacing.

 

[Mossman]

Not relevant to a discussion about whether or not all divers should surface together, or all should inflate and deploy SMBs before surfacing.

Apparently it is when you want to use such a tragedy to promote your dive shop.

"Also, as you noted, we do require the group to stay together during all phases of the dive (Like the PADI DM manual says), and most importantly ascend under the protection of the DMs SMB. I'd bet that the woman who lost a leg a few weeks ago, in retrospect, would have preferred that."

Let's see, would the woman who lost her leg have preferred to lose her leg after falling off the boat while diving with a shop that allows buddy teams to ascend together or would she have preferred to lose her leg after falling off the boat while diving with a shop that requires the entire group to ascend when one diver gets LOA after dangerously sharing air with the DM like the PADI DM manual says?

And here I thought Shameless was just a cool show on Showtime.

 

[Christi]

I may be remembering wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the recent accident was not technically a diving accident - the diver was on the boat, standing on the side gunwale, and fell off the boat as it was turning. The boat captain could not react quickly enough, the boat continued turning, and turned right into her. Not relevant to a discussion about whether or not all divers should surface together, or all should inflate and deploy SMBs before surfacing.

This is also one of the versions I have heard. But correct, this particular accident was not relevant to a discussion about whether or not all divers should surface together, or all should inflate and deploy SMBs before surfacing.

 

[Dave Dillehay]

According to Dr. Piccolo, who ought to know, this person was trying to climb the ladder, when the boat captain took off to get the rest of the group which was obviously away at a distance. Was the group together, NO! But I am not trying to promote MY way of diving, but this is an example of why we keep the group together. First it is foremost an issue of safety. Is that self interest? Yes, I am a Texas Deep pocket and don't want to deal with the court costs. But from my start in 1992 I recognized that it was safer to come up in a group.

Those that want to come up in their widely separated groupings of 8 divers ought to dive elsewhere.

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[Mossman]

According to Dr. Piccolo, who ought to know, this person was trying to climb the ladder, when the boat captain took off to get the rest of the group which was obviously away at a distance. Was the group together, NO! But I am not trying to promote MY way of diving, but this is an example of why we keep the group together. First it is foremost an issue of safety. Is that self interest? Yes, I am a Texas Deep pocket and don't want to deal with the court costs. But from my start in 1992 I recognized that it was safer to come up in a group.

Those that want to come up in their widely separated groupings of 8 divers ought to dive elsewhere.

Seems I heard very recent reports of Aldora divers getting separated from the group. I assume they came up alone, or would you rather they just stay down and drown in order to preserve your deep pockets?

Personally, I'd rather dive ops focus on training their boat captains not to drive off while someone is climbing the ladder. Seems to me, whether groups are ascending together or are widely separated, a good captain can refrain from running them over and cutting off their legs. If a captain ever cut my leg off I would assuredly not tip. Or I might take a cue from DjDiverDan and tip $1, telling that captain that if he had done a better job and not cut off my leg, I would have tipped him $10. Or even $15.

 

[Ron Lee]

Seems I heard very recent reports of Aldora divers getting separated from the group. I assume they came up alone, or would you rather they just stay down and drown in order to preserve your deep pockets?

That is silly. Separations can and do occur. In that case separate ascents are very likely. Personally I am fully capable of ascending and surfacing in a group, with one other diver or alone.

The only difference a group ascent would have made is that there would have been multiple leg amputations or worse, overwhelming the ability of the emergency surgeons to perform adequate trauma care and likely resulting in unnecessary deaths. Hence: group ascents are potentially deadly.

You need a smiley to counteract that questionable assertion. Unless an approaching boat is silent, I will not be hit whether alone or in a group. Listen before surfacing. It is not that hard.

 

[Mossman]

You need a smiley to counteract that questionable assertion. Unless an approaching boat is silent, I will not be hit whether alone or in a group. Listen before surfacing. It is not that hard.

I'm just building on the assertion someone made that the separate ascent was the reason the poor lady lost her leg. If there's a wild captain zooming around cutting off peoples' legs, more divers in the group just means more targets. More legs.

Obviously I'm not the one who dives with an op that insists on group ascents for "safety". In fact, I rarely even ascend with a buddy. If there's a wild leg cutting captain around, I'd rather not be so noticeable. Buddies are a liability.

 

[Dave Dillehay]

Dear Mossman,

Yes, there have been times that divers have become separated from our groups, but it has been rare—but never planned or expected as others may do. Given that most of the dive sites are also the high speed routes of boats going back and forth on dive trips, and boats are also maneuvering to pick up divers, I just don't think it safe to have divers all over the place on the surface, and I back that up with conviction. And Christi, you are wrong!

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[Ron Lee]

Do any dive op owners think that it is a good idea to let novice divers ascend alone? While they can easily learn the things to look and listen for, teaching them by a DM/instructor seems far safer.

My recollection is that solo or buddy ascents have been a factor in a majority of recent Cozumel diving fatalities....going back to the female cruise ship diver at Santa Rosa and discounting the idiotic Scuba Mau deep dive on a small/80 cu ft tank of air

 

[Mossman]

Do any dive op owners think that it is a good idea to let novice divers ascend alone? While they can easily learn the things to look and listen for, teaching them by a DM/instructor seems far safer.

My recollection is that solo or buddy ascents have been a factor in a majority of recent Cozumel diving fatalities....going back to the female cruise ship diver at Santa Rosa and discounting the idiotic Scuba Mau deep dive on a small/80 cu ft tank of air

I wouldn't know. I've never been a novice diver.

But it's impossible to say that "solo or buddy ascents" have been a factor in Cozumel diving fatalities where the cause of the fatality is unknown. I believe the female cruise ship diver at Santa Rosa simply disappeared? It's just as likely she was abducted by aliens. And it's well known that aliens don't discriminate between individuals and groups. Look at all the movies where an entire group gets abducted. Again, I believe it's far safer to ascend alone where aliens are concerned.