Ssi Vs Padi And Others

[jviehe]

But the PADI AOW card "allows" one to do dives for which the diver might not be qualified. Even though I have dived well below 60fsw many times, I do not think that I would do a wreck at 130fsw without a lot of thought, mentoring, and practice.

I fear that too many newly-trained divers might take their AOW card as a "license to do anything." It scares me.

The PADI AOW certification "allows" nothing of sort. Perhaps youre thinking of how some dive operators equate it to a level of training they apply to it? The AOW certification is a recognition level which indicates a diver has completed 5 Adventure dives beyond certification. This includes basic training in deep and navigation diving, as well as 3 other special interest areas.

 

[jviehe]

Ill give my standard answer as to why I perfer PADI, and this because I think they provide the best opportunities to dive after initial certification:

-Diving Society
-Project AWARE
-DSAT
-Travel Network
-Relationships with gear manufacturers and dive centers
-focus on con-ed

 

[Thalassamania]

Ill give my standard answer as to why I perfer PADI, and this because I think they provide the best opportunities to dive after initial certification:

-Diving Society

Who needs it?

-Project AWARE

That was what they started when the Judge decided they weren't a legitimate NPO?

-DSAT

Another joke brought to you by the same people who thought NITROX was devil gas, you’d trust them to get it right this time?

-Travel Network

This is an opportunity? It’s just another sales outlet available to anyone who things it makes sense to use it.

-Relationships with gear manufacturers and dive centers

You get the same relationship anyone who is willing to pay gets.

-focus on con-ed

You'd better be focused exclusively on con-ed when the useful information and critical skills are doled out so slowly.

PADI reminds me of the child who killed both his parents and threw himself on the mercy of the court because he was an orphan.

 

[garyfotodiver]

The PADI AOW certification "allows" nothing of sort. Perhaps youre thinking of how some dive operators equate it to a level of training they apply to it? The AOW certification is a recognition level which indicates a diver has completed 5 Adventure dives beyond certification. This includes basic training in deep and navigation diving, as well as 3 other special interest areas.

Not to be nasty, but just what does it recognize? Deep and navigation ought to be part of basic training at the OW level. One dive in a "special interest" area is simply not enough.

I have watched several students do PADI AOW dives; I was not impressed at all.

On the other hand, as I have written before, my 12 year-old daughter was on a wreck at 72fsw on her third OW check-out dive. This was with my knowledge and approval. The instructors understood that she had to be able to dive where I dive.

If she shows her signed log book, does this mean that she has completed the deep, boat, and wreck dives for her PADI AOW?

 

[fisherdvm]

Not to be nasty, but just what does it recognize? Deep and navigation ought to be part of basic training at the OW level. One dive in a "special interest" area is simply not enough.

I have watched several students do PADI AOW dives; I was not impressed at all.

On the other hand, as I have written before, my 12 year-old daughter was on a wreck at 72fsw on her third OW check-out dive. This was with my knowledge and approval. The instructors understood that she had to be able to dive where I dive.

If she shows her signed log book, does this mean that she has completed the deep, boat, and wreck dives for her PADI AOW?

As I recall, more theories and tasks are required than simply diving to 72 ft. We discussed the risk of the dive, the function of the safety stop, the need for slow ascent, and performed cognitive testing at depth with a buddy. This reinforced the understanding of nitrogen narcosis. If you did that with your daughter before the dive, and force her to take a test of knowledge, then, certainly, she attained the understanding to do that dive in the future.

 

[jviehe]

I cant speak for how individual PADI instructors teach their classes, or how dive centers advertise or run their classes. The intent of the AOW certification is to recognize basic divers who have ventured into more advanced types of diving. The "course" is not even called Advanced Open Water again. It is called Adventures in Diving, which can result in several different certifications or none. Part of it is to serve as an intro to specialities.

Now again, if a dive operator assume that someone who has an AOW card is qualified to dive a wreck at 100ft, that is nieve, as an AOW diver can have never even been on a boat. That is not PADIs responsibility. The scope of the course is publicly available and taught to the students.

As for your daughter, PADI standards require that Adventure dives be done after OW class is completed, and under the supervision of an instructor, who must sign the proper paperwork. Materials and knowledge reviews are required as well. So no, she hasnt done Adventure dives.

 

[fisherdvm]

I admire folks who understand the weakness of the PADI system, and want to improve it.

However, I do seem to sense a certain desire to "one up" on another organization. I think in my medical training, this is called the "pizzing contest". And the desire to criticize another person's credential is called "phallic envy"...

A good instructor will guide an intelligent student so he/she will not exceed his capabilities. Simply saying that you learn x,y,z in your OW make you better than someone else, or saying that you have done x number of dives, does not imply your system is better than another.

I appreciates Thalassamia's critical comment of PADI.... and hopefully, that will make other PADI instructors more aware of the deficits in the system.

 

[Walter]

A good instructor will guide an intelligent student so he/she will not exceed his capabilities. Simply saying that you learn x,y,z in your OW make you better than someone else, or saying that you have done x number of dives, does not imply your system is better than another.

There are certain skills that are necessary to master before one can be a skilled and reasonably safe diver. Of course a good instructor builds complex skills on simpler skills already mastered, that keeps students from exceeding their capabilities. There are some programs in which rather than build complex skills on simpler skills, they merely don't teach the more complex skills. In my opinion, that makes those programs inherently unsafe. Other programs that keep and teach those more complex skills are better than those that don't. Sorry to disillusion you, but some programs are better than others.

It would be wonderful if all agencies had high standards, but they don't.

 

[fisherdvm]

There are certain skills that are necessary to master before one can be a skilled and reasonably safe diver. Of course a good instructor builds complex skills on simpler skills already mastered, that keeps students from exceeding their capabilities. There are some programs in which rather than build complex skills on simpler skills, they merely don't teach the more complex skills. In my opinion, that makes those programs inherently unsafe. Other programs that keep and teach those more complex skills are better than those that don't. Sorry to disillusion you, but some programs are better than others.

It would be wonderful if all agencies had high standards, but they don't.

You are correct, Walter, and I wished I had your training. The story I quoted about 2 PADI buddies night diving sharing 1 light off from a boat with too short of an anchor ...... These guys were intelligent (both have M.D's)... Wished they had better training to tell them NOT to do such a dive. Both you and I see divers making mistakes ... But I think the industry is driven to sell more products thus they try to increase demands by watering down basic instructions.

 

[split0101]

I love the PADI vs SSI vs "some other agency" posts. It seems its the same conversation as the "LDS vs online sales" posts.

One of my buddies did his OW cert through SSI and I did mine through PADI, I dont think selecting one over the other makes you a better diver over the other. I read through his course material and it was so similar to the PADI OW material that they are almost interchangeable.