SSI Stress & Rescue Course vs PADI Rescue Diver
- Thread starter scuba_katt
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but it may make you dead when you would not otherwise be.
Look at the folks talking about shooting unconscious divers to the surface upon discovery. If the diver has toxed, and still has his reg, doing that condemns him to death.
Yet this is apparently taught in some of these "rescue" courses.
I am VERY uncomfortable with a doctrine that sets a standard of care which could KILL people.
Look at the folks talking about shooting unconscious divers to the surface upon discovery. If the diver has toxed, and still has his reg, doing that condemns him to death.
Yet this is apparently taught in some of these "rescue" courses.
I am VERY uncomfortable with a doctrine that sets a standard of care which could KILL people.
notabob
Contributor
I don't doubt for a second that they are. I was oversimplifying for the sake of saving space, time, and conveying my point of view.
-Roman.
The Standard of Care in the legal sense generally
means you must preform as well as the reasonably
prudent person under the same or similar circumstances.
That is you are held to the standard of what a
hypothetical reasonably prudent person would do.
For example if you were an instructor and left a pool
full of new students while you went outdoors for a
cigarette, and someone drowned while you were
gone, a jury would determine what the reasonably
prudent person would have done and measured your
actions against that. See?
That you preformed to industry standards is evidence
that you did preform reasonably prudently. That's why
STANDARDS that you know and can follow make you
safer from lawsuits.
means you must preform as well as the reasonably
prudent person under the same or similar circumstances.
That is you are held to the standard of what a
hypothetical reasonably prudent person would do.
For example if you were an instructor and left a pool
full of new students while you went outdoors for a
cigarette, and someone drowned while you were
gone, a jury would determine what the reasonably
prudent person would have done and measured your
actions against that. See?
That you preformed to industry standards is evidence
that you did preform reasonably prudently. That's why
STANDARDS that you know and can follow make you
safer from lawsuits.
The reason I asked about what you learned
about sharing air is that everyone should be
learning the same method of sharing. If I am
signaled that another diver is out of air we
should both know what the other is going
to do, reguardless if we are PADI<NAUI,
or SSI. Thats what standardized curriculum
would do.
Doctors don't learn Harvard anatomy, Emory
anatomy, and U Cal anatomy. They just \
learn ANATOMY. Period. It's standard and
universal. Rescue methods should be too.
about sharing air is that everyone should be
learning the same method of sharing. If I am
signaled that another diver is out of air we
should both know what the other is going
to do, reguardless if we are PADI<NAUI,
or SSI. Thats what standardized curriculum
would do.
Doctors don't learn Harvard anatomy, Emory
anatomy, and U Cal anatomy. They just \
learn ANATOMY. Period. It's standard and
universal. Rescue methods should be too.
Most are taught to pass their octopus. YMCA standards require me to teach students to pass their octopus. Prior to that change in standards, that choice was left to the instructor. When it was my option, I taught students to pass their primary. Now I teach as standards require, but I also teach them that there are other possibilities and that other divers may pass their primary. I try to prepare them for all possibilities.
The first SCUBA Rescue course was developed in 1978 with grants from the Council for National Cooperation in Aquatics and the Manned Underseas Science and Technology Program of NOAA. Representatives of both these groups contributed to the development of this course along with representatives from Canadian Royal Lifesaving Society, National YMCA Aquatic Program, American Red Cross, Newport Beach (California) Marine Department, PADI, US Army Medical Corps, Canadian Council of Underwater Clubs, Ontario Heart Foundation, Surf Lifesaving Association, Canadian Red Cross, National Forum for Advancement of Aquatics, University of Rhode Island, Association of Canadian Underwater Clubs, and Allegheny College.
This program was initiated in 1977 by Robert W. Smith, Director of the National YMCA Center for Underwater Activities. The result of the committee's work was the YMCA SLAM (SCUBA Lifesaving and Accident Management) course.
SLAM is broken down into 4 interelated and overlapping components represented by CARE: Cognizance, Assessment, Rescue and Evacuation and support proceedures.
Current standards require:
Prerequisites for SLAM are:
1. Age 15 or older
2. Completed medical questionnaire
3. Statement of understanding/Waiver
4. Advanced rating or 10 logged dives after OW certification
5. CPR
Corequisites are:
1. First Aid
2. Oxygen provider.
Required lectures:
1. Cognizance of diving accidents (victim detection)
2. Assessment of diving accidents
3. Rescue techniques
4. Evacuation and support proceedures
Required pool training:
1. 300 yd swim
2. 15 minute tred/float
3. 50 feet underwater swim
4. Extensions
5. Approaches
6. Lifesaving & Lifequard swim skills
7. Stabilization of a surface victim
8. Contact & handling of a stationary submerged victim
9. Descent arrests
10. Ascent arrests
11. OOA Emergencies
12. Retrieval & stabilization of unconscious submerged victim
13. Tows
14. Mouth to mouth rescue breathing (simulated)
15. Mouth to snorkel rescue breathing (simulated)
16. Water egress
Required open water training:
1. Detailed predive briefing
2. Rescues
3. Transporting victim and water egress
4. Evacuation
80% or better (counseled to 100%) closed book examination.
The first SCUBA Rescue course was developed in 1978 with grants from the Council for National Cooperation in Aquatics and the Manned Underseas Science and Technology Program of NOAA. Representatives of both these groups contributed to the development of this course along with representatives from Canadian Royal Lifesaving Society, National YMCA Aquatic Program, American Red Cross, Newport Beach (California) Marine Department, PADI, US Army Medical Corps, Canadian Council of Underwater Clubs, Ontario Heart Foundation, Surf Lifesaving Association, Canadian Red Cross, National Forum for Advancement of Aquatics, University of Rhode Island, Association of Canadian Underwater Clubs, and Allegheny College.
This program was initiated in 1977 by Robert W. Smith, Director of the National YMCA Center for Underwater Activities. The result of the committee's work was the YMCA SLAM (SCUBA Lifesaving and Accident Management) course.
SLAM is broken down into 4 interelated and overlapping components represented by CARE: Cognizance, Assessment, Rescue and Evacuation and support proceedures.
Current standards require:
Prerequisites for SLAM are:
1. Age 15 or older
2. Completed medical questionnaire
3. Statement of understanding/Waiver
4. Advanced rating or 10 logged dives after OW certification
5. CPR
Corequisites are:
1. First Aid
2. Oxygen provider.
Required lectures:
1. Cognizance of diving accidents (victim detection)
2. Assessment of diving accidents
3. Rescue techniques
4. Evacuation and support proceedures
Required pool training:
1. 300 yd swim
2. 15 minute tred/float
3. 50 feet underwater swim
4. Extensions
5. Approaches
6. Lifesaving & Lifequard swim skills
7. Stabilization of a surface victim
8. Contact & handling of a stationary submerged victim
9. Descent arrests
10. Ascent arrests
11. OOA Emergencies
12. Retrieval & stabilization of unconscious submerged victim
13. Tows
14. Mouth to mouth rescue breathing (simulated)
15. Mouth to snorkel rescue breathing (simulated)
16. Water egress
Required open water training:
1. Detailed predive briefing
2. Rescues
3. Transporting victim and water egress
4. Evacuation
80% or better (counseled to 100%) closed book examination.
tjmills
Contributor
I thought I would throw in my 2 cents for whatever its worth. I am fairly new to the board but I was just discussing this exact thing today with my dive buddy who did his rescue last year so it was interesting to run into this discussion.
I just finished up my SSI Stress and Rescue course with Dan 02 and CPR. I used to be, in another lifetime it seems, a lifeguard and swimming instructor (as if this really matters). I have done PADI up to this point and may or may not do it for Master or may go with SSI for Dive Con. Frankly at this point, I like the course outline of SSI better but the statement below is what its all about.
Comparing SSI Rescue to PADI. My dive buddy did PADI Rescue. I did SSI. We compared notes today on this and everything was just about the same. I will say that he did his in 90+ degree water (pansie) and I did mine in 61 degree with outside temps at 25 degrees (maybe I am just stupid). Both of us were exhausted both days of the open waters and all kinds of things were thrown at us. He had to do a search/rescue on a diver, entangled in line (good) and in low visibility but no wetsuit,Fresh water weighting (pansie!). I had to do mine with someone in low visibility and the victim wearing a drysuit with mucho weight and me with mucho weight in my 7 mil. Trust me, I would have dropped all the weight if I had a chance but the divers below would have been most unhappy. I think both of us learned a lot and we put in a lot. Very rewarding class but not easy and physically and mentally its much more demanding than any other class previously.
A couple things I would like to agree with and you can take to the bank. ITS ALL ABOUT WHO THE INSTRUCTOR IS and HOW MUCH YOU PUT INTO IT. But...isn't everything?
No, these are not Tech dive Organizations but they do serve all of us and if nothing else, they do promote diving for all of us. Being severly landlocked myself, I am glad these organizations exist. There are some things that I just HATE about PADI. To me, PADI is the most greedy of all of the organizations and this has allowed them to expand everywhere. The specialties....for more $$. Give me a break. What I have liked about SSI so far is that they seem a little more based upon experience than PADI is just about getting more $$ out of you. I say "little" because that is what it is and I would actually like to see them expand a in this area. The bottom line is that the more "EXPERIENCE" you have underwater the better you will become. ....Just like everything else.
No worries with PADI and No worries with SSI. Find a good instructor. Ask others. Push yourself and don't sit back and wait for someone to push YOU.
Thats my story....and I am sticking to it. - Dennis Miller
T.J.
I just finished up my SSI Stress and Rescue course with Dan 02 and CPR. I used to be, in another lifetime it seems, a lifeguard and swimming instructor (as if this really matters). I have done PADI up to this point and may or may not do it for Master or may go with SSI for Dive Con. Frankly at this point, I like the course outline of SSI better but the statement below is what its all about.
Comparing SSI Rescue to PADI. My dive buddy did PADI Rescue. I did SSI. We compared notes today on this and everything was just about the same. I will say that he did his in 90+ degree water (pansie) and I did mine in 61 degree with outside temps at 25 degrees (maybe I am just stupid). Both of us were exhausted both days of the open waters and all kinds of things were thrown at us. He had to do a search/rescue on a diver, entangled in line (good) and in low visibility but no wetsuit,Fresh water weighting (pansie!). I had to do mine with someone in low visibility and the victim wearing a drysuit with mucho weight and me with mucho weight in my 7 mil. Trust me, I would have dropped all the weight if I had a chance but the divers below would have been most unhappy. I think both of us learned a lot and we put in a lot. Very rewarding class but not easy and physically and mentally its much more demanding than any other class previously.
A couple things I would like to agree with and you can take to the bank. ITS ALL ABOUT WHO THE INSTRUCTOR IS and HOW MUCH YOU PUT INTO IT. But...isn't everything?
No, these are not Tech dive Organizations but they do serve all of us and if nothing else, they do promote diving for all of us. Being severly landlocked myself, I am glad these organizations exist. There are some things that I just HATE about PADI. To me, PADI is the most greedy of all of the organizations and this has allowed them to expand everywhere. The specialties....for more $$. Give me a break. What I have liked about SSI so far is that they seem a little more based upon experience than PADI is just about getting more $$ out of you. I say "little" because that is what it is and I would actually like to see them expand a in this area. The bottom line is that the more "EXPERIENCE" you have underwater the better you will become. ....Just like everything else.
No worries with PADI and No worries with SSI. Find a good instructor. Ask others. Push yourself and don't sit back and wait for someone to push YOU.
Thats my story....and I am sticking to it. - Dennis Miller
T.J.
Octopusprime
Contributor
I am looking to go Padi pro... Does it matter if I take ssi rescue?
It does not matter if you take SSI Rescue... as long as you also take PADI Rescue Diver as well.
:d
You must be PADI AOW and PADI Rescue Certified, per standards of PADI DM Course.
Your signature line says you're currently a DM candidate at a (PADI) shop. How is that possible if you haven't even taken Rescue Diver yet?
And how is it possible that you asked your question as a reply to a 12yr old thread? :d
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