Spreading communicable diseases via regulator

[Eric Sedletzky]

The real question is why do tech and cave divers dive this way. They are the most extreme among us, I would think they know what they are doing.

They dive in caves and wrecks where exiting single file may be needed. They are also trained to a higher standard than regular recreational divers and dive within their circle of buddies. The possibility of diving with an insta buddy is zero when they are doing their thing.

The rest of the world of regular recreational diving where insta buddies and the possibility of OOA situations is much greater then octo might make sense. Plus let’s look at the most popular world wide training protocols and what everybody teaches and it isn’t the long hose. The long hose is a tech DIR Internet scubaboard decostop thing. The rest of the world probably never heard of such a thing. So, regular divers around the world are probably better off practicing what they learned in OW anyway.
I almost forgot about air 2’s.
Yes that’s one primary donate situation that a small percentage of the rec population employs, and from what I’ve seen not that well. Their primary hose is always way too short for it to be effective and work well.
I used to be a pretty hard core long hoser Hog looper, but not so much anymore.

 

[saxman242]

They dive in caves and wrecks where exiting single file may be needed.

That explains the hose length, but not the primary donate. One could just as easily have a long octo.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I disagree most strongly! In an out of air situation, the standard of care is to give the regulator that has been working perfectly (your primary), and then take the spare reg that is hanging around your throat for yourself, since you checked it at the start of the dive it should still be working 30 minutes later. What the panicked out-of-air diver doesn't need is problems with the donated reg! If you are not willing to assume buddy duties for others, dive alone!
Michael

I will use my secondary perhaps every 15 dives for the full dive and perhaps a for a few minutes on each dive. I've seen it where divers have "checked" their secondary by only using the purge button and had it fail when giving it to another diver. Also if I was using rental equipment I am likely to use the secondary as they are rarely used and often cleaner.

 

[formernuke]

Here is where this post gets moved.

And it's a valid difference, but if we are talking about virus living on a surface, once you're mouth on the mouthpiece, it's contaminated. There's definitely some studying that'd need to be done to see what if any difference there are there. When we are talking about the odds of a real OOA emergency combined with the odds of someone actually being ill but being asymptomatic and being contagious and the difference in viral load on the mouthpiece after doing an underwater handoff... We are probably talking the difference between 0 cases and 0 cases depending on method.

It takes me less than a second to switch my regs, 2 is 1, 1 is none, I switch back and forth to confirm both are working.

In a proper pre dive check you check fully both 2nd stages, granted the octopus then gets clipped off, but if you are a proper diver you switch occasionally to make sure it's working so your saliva is still on it. I will grant it's not the one mostly in your mouth so with the time delay things get killed off.

So I have a new idea to confirm you will never get a disease from my reg. If you come to me saying your OOA, or you panic and grab my reg, I just dump your weights. If your in a weight belt I undo it, since most BCD's are integrated it's much easier to dump weight and either way it is easier than a share air. You rise to the surface like a rocket (unlimited air there). You then get lung expansion injury or you get bent with permanent injury (but hey you didn't have to take Tylenol and Theraflu for a few days).

You can compare the long term residuals.

Or this is a very novel idea stop panicking of this virus which real test show is no worse than the flu and train so that you never have to do a share air.

 

[Blackcrusader]

If I have to give a buddy a reg it's highly likely they are panicking and i will have to be doing buoyancy control for the both of us.

I've shared my secondary to dive buddies just to make sure before they get too low on air they can complete a dive and bring to the point where they can finish their safety stop on their own tank and stay with a group. Sometimes it has been a diver struggling against a current where they get a bit tired. Rather than let them run too low and finish a dive in 45 mins we can help them complete an hours dive. I believe it's also good practice as well. Just my opinion. Sometimes people who are not so experienced and therefor use a lot more air appreciate a bit of help from a more experienced diver. Often it's a vacation diver who perhaps is newly certified or perhaps has only 20 dives in a few years.

 

[saxman242]

show is no worse than the flu

While I won't go as far as agreeing that the data backs that statement up, I do agree with the rest of your sentiment.

 

[formernuke]

I've shared my secondary to dive buddies just to make sure before they get too low on air they can complete a dive and bring to the point where they can finish their safety stop on their own tank and stay with a group. Sometimes it has been a diver struggling against a current where they get a bit tired. Rather than let them run too low and finish a dive in 45 mins we can help them complete an hours dive. I believe it's also good practice as well. Just my opinion. Sometimes people who are not so experienced and therefor use a lot more air appreciate a bit of help from a more experienced diver. Often it's a vacation diver who perhaps is newly certified or perhaps has only 20 dives in a few years.

Plan for worst hope for the best. If that happens good but I plan and train for worst case.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Plan for worst hope for the best. If that happens good but I plan and train for worst case.

I have a low sac rate so often lots of spare air to share. I am happy to be diving so don't mind being with less experienced divers.
Mostly I am with divers who are experienced and don't need assistance but there are times I join a dive where my dive buddy is an OW with not a lot of dives.

 

[Edward3c]

That explains the hose length, but not the primary donate. One could just as easily have a long octo.

No a long secondary in a restricted space like a wreck or cave isn’t any good. The OOG diver’s head would be one body length in front or behind the donor, they get the donor’s attention who then hands them the regulator. Yes it could be the secondary, but when diving with multiple mixes it’s quicker to donate from the in use reg than fumble for the correct secondary.

Those doing these sort of dives are trained (or should be) in the technique.

The big risk is when this technique is used in normal recreational diving the buddy might not be so trained, then panic actions happen.

I’ve seen secondary regs trapped by the long hose leaving the donor without a reg.

To comply with BSAC’s insurance, a claim where the use of the long hose round the neck technique (hog loop) is used, (and is a contributing factor to an incident) must be able to prove competence in the skill. The demonstration at pre-dive doesn’t qualify. Most agencies don’t specify it in their syllabus, (putting the instructor in the firing range) therefore no proof. BSAC specifically prohibits the configuration during lessons involving lifesaving skills.

Out of interest BSAC’s annual incident reports don’t support the grabbing of primary regulators. Strangely a high proportion of OOG divers refuse any reg offered.

 

[saxman242]

Yes it could be the secondary, but when diving with multiple mixes it’s quicker to donate from the in use reg than fumble for the correct secondary

This is what I was getting at as a driver for why one would donate the primary reg and not the secondary. The long hose is on the primary reg because the primary reg is the one being donated rather than the primary reg is the one being donated because it happens to be on the long hose for some arbitrary reason.