Sport Chalet Instruction...new rules

[tracy_from_oz]

Sorry I think it is a bit of a silly idea.
Computers can fail/break but knowing how to use the tables is essential I think.

I use a computer every dive but as a back up to my tables which I use every dive to plan my dive etc. Some people may think I am stuck in the stone age this way, but I do not mind.
It has worked so far so well for the 14 years I have been diving.

I do not see what is wrong with learning all the ways, tables and computers as well as how to use the wheel. It can never hurt at the end of the day.

 

[Jorbar1551]

I bet the price of the crew pack reflects this enhancement too.

Pete

yep. its an extra 20 dollars or so

 

[SeaLevelScuba]

Sorry I need a little explanation here (not agains you Jahjah but from all that say they use table as backup in case of computer failure) :

I you dive to 35m stay there 2mn then go up slowly. After 40mn diving your computer fail. What will the table tell you? Will you follow it?

thanks

This is actually pretty simple

Before any repetitive dive find out where you are on the tables via the dive planning mode of the computer you are using. To do this you simply figure out how much time your computer is allotting at a specified depth, using the tables find the allottment for the depth on your ANDL table and record it on your record keeping media (slate, wet notes, whatever). Now you do your dive and should you experience a computer failure you already know what your max no-deco time was base on the table and computer (they should've been pretty much the same within a few minutes) and you manage the dive based on your knowledge of the tables. Once you surface from the dive it'll be simple enough to continue your diving if you learned how to used the tables in the first place otherwise you'll be on your own. This can also be done using the eRDP's dive planning mode.

On the whole usage argument, a dive table left in the gear bag is not any worse than a eRDP left in a drybox or a diver not viewing a dive computers dive planning mode before a dive.

 

[Jorbar1551]

i need to learn how to do multi level dive planning using the table/wheel without a computer

 

[Scott in AK]

You mean like the eRDP???

No, not an eDRP.

I use a suunto console w/pressure and depth gauges
and a vytec w/transmiter. I also cary the RDP and a watch.
If the vytec ( the electriconics) fails, I have my watch, tables and console to fall back on. I am new to diving but not to being prepared for unforseen events,

I carry 2 GPS units when I go 70 miles off road across the tundra, but I also carry a compass and maps and I know how to use them, never had to pull out the compass, but I still carry it.

I am glad that the course matieral that I bought had an RDP and an eRDP, so I know how to use both, the others in my class don't. I think the tables should be part of the OW course.








0

 

[Kevrumbo]

Karl Huggins (himself) is an old old friend, I wonder how he'd feel about your bringing his name into this conversation in this fashion?

Simply laugh at Netdoc's claim regarding the Table's obsolesence, and dismiss his opinion for what it is . . .absolute malarkey and total quackery. . .

 

[MikeFerrara]

Simply laugh at Netdoc's claim regarding the Table's obsolesence, and dismiss his opinion for what it is . . .absolute malarkey and total quackery. . .

I wouldn't dismiss it as quackery. While I think tables should be taught and disagree with Netdoc on some other teaching details, I don't think he is a quack. Without having ever actually seen one of his classes, overall, I get the impression that he probably teaches a pretty good class.

I think tables are handy and have their uses but I think the most important thing to teach is dive planning and manageing a dive within that plan...the specific tools used being secondary to the process. AFIC, it's a simple matter to read table instructions or computer instructions and be able to oporate the tool with no instruction at all, while it's the actual dive planning and management that probably requires more instruction/supervision. If we look at some of the classes out there and the standards they are taught to, I think we see that they often don't really teach that whether or not they teach the mechanics of the tables in the classroom...reference what I said earlier about student just following the instructor and getting depth and time numbers from the instructor after the fact to get a PG and fill out their log. Those students may have seen how a table works but they stopped short by never actually applying it to any diving. In fact some training standards don't require a student to actually plan a dive and then dive it at all. I know it's done that way because I took classes that were like that, it's how I was taught to teach and how I did teach early on and I've seen many others doing the same. The result is divers mindlessly following blinking lights or a DM. I think that's the biggest reason why many divers don't use tables or really even use their computers. I don't think teaching tables is a problem and I don't think giving up tables for computers is a solution. Failure to teach dive planning and management is a problem and teaching it is a solution. I think that can probably be done with tables, computers, both or with other tools like decompression software.

So I guess I agree with Thal, that what's taught along with the tool is more critical than the tool itself. What is it they say... "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools"?

 

[The Chairman]

Simply laugh at Netdoc's claim regarding the Table's obsolesence, and dismiss his opinion for what it is . . .absolute malarkey and total quackery. . .

Still no answers: only trite invective. Interesting. Your denial of reality is alarming. That you keep falling back on insults and such to further your opinion, rather than substantive evidence is even more so. We would LOVE to hear some answers to my simple questions.

 

[The Chairman]

So I guess I agree with Thal, that what's taught along with the tool is more critical than the tool itself. What is it they say... "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools"?

AMEN BROTHER!!! You see, we agree after all.

 

[Thalassamania]

Simply laugh at Netdoc's claim regarding the Table's obsolesence, and dismiss his opinion for what it is . . .absolute malarkey and total quackery. . .

The problem is that you're drawing on what you, in the heat of your argument, think Karl would say. From my personal knowledge I rather doubt that Karl's view is what you're representing it as. Similary you have no business implying that either the Catalina Chamber or the College of Oceaneering have a position or opinion on the topic. You should speak for yourself only, unless you can point to an official statement from either.

No, not an eDRP.

I use a suunto console w/pressure and depth gauges
and a vytec w/transmiter. I also cary the RDP and a watch.
If the vytec ( the electriconics) fails, I have my watch, tables and console to fall back on. I am new to diving but not to being prepared for unforseen events,

I carry 2 GPS units when I go 70 miles off road across the tundra, but I also carry a compass and maps and I know how to use them, never had to pull out the compass, but I still carry it.

I am glad that the course matieral that I bought had an RDP and an eRDP, so I know how to use both, the others in my class don't. I think the tables should be part of the OW course.

While I think that there are better tools that an RDP, I complete agree with your approach. I usually carry two computers and a plastic set of U.S. Navy tables.

So I guess I agree with Thal, that what's taught along with the tool is more critical than the tool itself. What is it they say... "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools"?

I wish I’d used that phrase in this context, as I noted earlier it was Glen.