split fins and dive computers

[The Fresh Prince]

If you are diving dir w/o a computer and have planned your bottom time based on a pre-determined dive plan, what do you do if you want to deviate from your dive plan once on the dive? Do you have multiple dive plans in your pocket or do you simply not deviate from the plan?

For instance, you plan a dive no deeper than the deck on a wreck. Once on the deck, you see a something on the bottom some 20' deeper than your max depth dive plan where you want to dive down for 2 or 3 min. to investigate. Are you precluded from investigating the subject that caught your attention?

A computer doesn't penalize you for the multi level dive. What do dir divers do when faced with this issue?

You stick to the plan and plan your next dive twenty feet deeper. Your contingency plans are for an emergency, not to check out "something on the bottom".

 

[BCS]

You stick to the plan and plan your next dive twenty feet deeper. Your contingency plans are for an emergency, not to check out "something on the bottom".

Hi Joe,
Just thought I'd add a bit into the discussion. As far as dropping down a few feet for a peek, my partners and I dive using our "average depth" (which is also what your computer is calc'ing for you and what gives you adjusted NDL's as you ascend in your profile)...by taking 5 minute "snapshots", we can very easily average our depth and calc NDL's or necessary deco stops on the fly. Dropping down for a quick peek should barely affect our profile and even if it did, we do not EVER schedule/plan a dive so close to the edge of our abilities/gas limits that we cannot make minor changes in either direction (deeper/shallower or more/less bottom/deco time) and the changes would be unable to managed easily by the team. Just recalc and adjust accordingly. There is no need to carry a bunch of tables, backup tables, wrist slates w/flip tops....been there and done that and I can tell you from experience that it made diving way more complicated than it needs to be....
Having said all this, there is a price to be paid to be able to do this w/o the need of reliance on a computer to tell one what to do and when to do it. The price is for achieving this kind of competence is education and experience (practice). Gaining a basic familiarity and understanding of decompression and how a computer calc's it is the beginning of becoming competent at this....then one should practice and become proficient at maintaining a proper ascent rate, holding stops, and most importantly, being aware of one's environment, team, and equipment throughout the dive and managing all three simultaneously. The reward for putting in the time to become proficient??....simplicity and freedom...knowledge of how to do this opens up doors that only increase the enjoyment of diving.
After years of slate writing and producing/copying tables, I really enjoy the simplicity and freedom afforded by having the ability to dive as I want and the freedom to change things underwater---on the fly---and still know that we can easily re-calc the deco and make it home safely.
That is why we (meaning me and my dive buddies) do not have to rely on a dive computer....some of the other disadvantages of relying on this piece of equipment to tell you what to do include building diver complacency by reliance on the computer w/o knowlege of the why and how of calc'ing the deco, which often times penalizes the diver for any deep stops by needlessly extending shallow stop times....once one learns how and why, it's easy to see how the computer actually limits your diving and is unnecessary for a thinking diver.
Just my $0.02...somewhat related to the topic and may be of use to someone out there.....

dvie safe!---b.

 

[TX101]

That is why we (meaning me and my dive buddies) do not have to rely on a dive computer....some of the other disadvantages of relying on this piece of equipment to tell you what to do include building diver complacency by reliance on the computer w/o knowlege of the why and how of calc'ing the deco, which often times penalizes the diver for any deep stops by needlessly extending shallow stop times....once one learns how and why, it's easy to see how the computer actually limits your diving and is unnecessary for a thinking diver.
Just my $0.02...somewhat related to the topic and may be of use to someone out there.....

dvie safe!---b.

You still reply on a computer.

An electronic computer is subject to battery failure and electronics failure. Your computer is subject to narcosis, co2 retention and tiredness.

What if, for some reason, you can't log your depth. Maybe a hammerhead swims by at that moment. Maybe you find a porthole/lobster at that point and get distracted. Maybe you just forget because you are narced at 90ft (it happens). And then you get seperated from your buddy because it's high current and low vis. What do you do then?

My electronic computer is subject to none of those things. And if I take a computer AND my brain AND a buddy I have more redundancy. Because more redundancy is better, right?

 

[detroit diver]

What if the hammerhead bites off your arm with the computer on it?

What if he then eats your buddy?

Now you've got only your brain.....

What would you do then?

You still reply on a computer.

An electronic computer is subject to battery failure and electronics failure. Your computer is subject to narcosis, co2 retention and tiredness.

What if, for some reason, you can't log your depth. Maybe a hammerhead swims by at that moment. Maybe you find a porthole/lobster at that point and get distracted. Maybe you just forget because you are narced at 90ft (it happens). And then you get seperated from your buddy because it's high current and low vis. What do you do then?

My electronic computer is subject to none of those things. And if I take a computer AND my brain AND a buddy I have more redundancy. Because more redundancy is better, right?

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Hi Joe,
Just thought I'd add a bit into the discussion. As far as dropping down a few feet for a peek, my partners and I dive using our "average depth" (which is also what your computer is calc'ing for you and what gives you adjusted NDL's as you ascend in your profile)...by taking 5 minute "snapshots", we can very easily average our depth and calc NDL's or necessary deco stops on the fly. Dropping down for a quick peek should barely affect our profile and even if it did, we do not EVER schedule/plan a dive so close to the edge of our abilities/gas limits that we cannot make minor changes in either direction (deeper/shallower or more/less bottom/deco time) and the changes would be unable to managed easily by the team. Just recalc and adjust accordingly. There is no need to carry a bunch of tables, backup tables, wrist slates w/flip tops....been there and done that and I can tell you from experience that it made diving way more complicated than it needs to be....
Having said all this, there is a price to be paid to be able to do this w/o the need of reliance on a computer to tell one what to do and when to do it. The price is for achieving this kind of competence is education and experience (practice). Gaining a basic familiarity and understanding of decompression and how a computer calc's it is the beginning of becoming competent at this....then one should practice and become proficient at maintaining a proper ascent rate, holding stops, and most importantly, being aware of one's environment, team, and equipment throughout the dive and managing all three simultaneously. The reward for putting in the time to become proficient??....simplicity and freedom...knowledge of how to do this opens up doors that only increase the enjoyment of diving.
After years of slate writing and producing/copying tables, I really enjoy the simplicity and freedom afforded by having the ability to dive as I want and the freedom to change things underwater---on the fly---and still know that we can easily re-calc the deco and make it home safely.
That is why we (meaning me and my dive buddies) do not have to rely on a dive computer....some of the other disadvantages of relying on this piece of equipment to tell you what to do include building diver complacency by reliance on the computer w/o knowlege of the why and how of calc'ing the deco, which often times penalizes the diver for any deep stops by needlessly extending shallow stop times....once one learns how and why, it's easy to see how the computer actually limits your diving and is unnecessary for a thinking diver.
Just my $0.02...somewhat related to the topic and may be of use to someone out there.....

dvie safe!---b.

Thanks Brando, I concur if that is how you are trained. Snapshots and depth averaging are great tools for a trained team, but in the case of the poster, I will have to presume not. Deco on the fly using standard gasses is another valuable tool to account for the change in the plan, but I would not recommend it for anyone not having taken the training, like you have.

 

[TX101]

What if the hammerhead bites off your arm with the computer on it?

What if he then eats your buddy?

Now you've got only your brain.....

What would you do then?

I wear two computers + a uwatec bottom timer

But lets face it.. getting distracted for 5min is a much more likely scenario (even with the coveted GUE training).

 

[detroit diver]

I wear two computers + a uwatec bottom timer

But lets face it.. getting distracted for 5min is a much more likely scenario (even with the coveted GUE training).

Let's say you get 3 different readings. Which one do you choose?

Unless you take the "coveted GUE training" then you can't experience what is taught there. Or the reasoning behind it.

If you SHOULD take the training, then your arguements about narcosis at 90 feet and 5 minute distractions become a moot point.

Oh yeah. If the hammerhead DOES swim by, how does that prevent you from looking at your gauges? Do they suddenly stop working in the presence of a shark?

 

[BCS]

You still reply on a computer. An electronic computer is subject to battery failure and electronics failure. Your computer is subject to narcosis, co2 retention and tiredness.

What if, for some reason, you can't log your depth. Maybe a hammerhead swims by at that moment. Maybe you find a porthole/lobster at that point and get distracted. Maybe you just forget because you are narced at 90ft (it happens). And then you get seperated from your buddy because it's high current and low vis. What do you do then?

My electronic computer is subject to none of those things. And if I take a computer AND my brain AND a buddy I have more redundancy. Because more redundancy is better, right?

Hi TX101,
If I have a choice (and I do) I'll choose my brain since it is a bit more reliable than a computer and allows for adjusting on the fly, input of many more variables, and is actually hardwired into my body so it can receive instantaneous feedback from the subject and adjust accordingly.
I do also rely on my team, my experience, my training, and my equipment. But I do not rely on a dive computer. I don't even own one.
If what you are trying to say is that my brain is a computer...I'd disagree. Computers are far more limited than my brain and maybe a bit faster w/some functions, but overall, the computer falls way short for what I need it to do underwater and what my brain is quite capable of doing....even narced at 90' (what kind of calc's do you think I'm doing???...this is easy stuff...even if I did get narced at 90, I'd lose that narcosis when I ascended and adjust accordingly....besides you'd be just as narced at 90 ' w/your computer, so what's your point?? Are you conceding to the fact that you blindly follow the digital readout and that is the real advantage of the computer?? Thank you, I appreciate you making my point for me......)
Bascally, If I am not going to use it, I do not take it. I do not have a need for a dive computer and will not use it soooo.....
For all the reasons I mentioned earlier, it is a detriment to my diving and is restrictive. It builds a bad habit of complacency by those who blindly accept what a digital readout tells them to do instead of actually gaining an understanding of the process and using that understanding to plan and execute a dive. If you are bringing it for backup for your brain, again, I'd argue that if your brain fails w/a depth guage/bt....isn't it going to fail w/a computer as well?? I mean, you do need your brain to interpet what the computer is telling you to do...or are you just blindly following the computer and doing as it says....(sounds like those DIR guys who just wear whatever gear GI tells 'em to!! Damn lemmings!!;-))
Seriously, if one is prone to being distracted, losing buddies, being narced then they are probably much safer relying on a computer to tell them what to do. As for me and my team, we are satisfied to be able to think and to dive w/o the problems you mention becoming an issue w/our diving....but then again, as I said earlier, that came at a price.....practice and education. I am very confident in my abilities and my team's abilities to handle the aforementioned situations (better yet, we'll just avoid them entirely) w/o the need for a dive computer.
This was a question posed in the DIR forum.....being that I have had a tiny bit of training from these guys and the question asked why we do not use a computer, I offered an answer. I am not trying to convince anyone in the world to give up their computer. I used one for many years.....just found it to be a nuisance after a while and do not miss it. I also was able to speak from experience of both using and relying on one as well as using the bottom timer/depth guage.
It's funny, the folks against DIR cite the idea that they (the DIR crowd) are mindless lemmings and blindly do as they are told....then these same critics jump in the water (one right after the other) and blindly follow the digital readout of thier all knowing computer....stay in the water at 10' until the cows come home.....or, worse...do a dive to 300'+ and because the computer said it was okay to exit the water w/o deco, they do so....I like to think that there's a better way.
again....just my $0.02...please dive as you wish.
dive safe!---b.

 

[cornfed]

Let's say you get 3 different readings. Which one do you choose?

I assume you'd choose the middle one. That's the only reason I can see for carrying three of them...

 

[rjchandler]

What if the hammerhead bites off your arm with the computer on it?

What if he then eats your buddy?

Now you've got only your brain.....

What would you do then?

Come on--the shark got his watch from Capt Hook and does his deco on the fly. He don't need no computer.