split fins and dive computers

[MikeFerrara]

I assume you'd choose the middle one. That's the only reason I can see for carrying three of them...

If you're going to use the one in the middle you could just throw the other 2 away.

I could see it now...a dive with 32%...but you forget to set one computer for 32%. Part way through the dive one computer tells you that you have 20 minutes left, another says that you have 2 and the other says that you are in the yellow.

1, what do you do?
a, ascend to 15 ft as fast as you can
b, realize that the dive is too complicated by all the buttons and that it's your own fault and go home

c, Look for greener water to get yourself out of the yellow.

2, describe the process you would use for calculating your repetative group for a second dive to the same depth after an hour SI.

 

[TX101]

Let's say you get 3 different readings. Which one do you choose?

Usually the most conservative - which turns out to be the bottom timer + tables (my primary method) by a country mile. I just stay at the 6m stop until both computers clear if they still have time left after following the tables. (One's an AI nitrox console, the other a 3 gas wristmount)

If you SHOULD take the training, then your arguements about narcosis at 90 feet and 5 minute distractions become a moot point.

Oh yeah. If the hammerhead DOES swim by, how does that prevent you from looking at your gauges? Do they suddenly stop working in the presence of a shark?

Are you seriously telling me that GUE training protects against narcosis?

The hammerhead is an example.. lets change the example to: zero vis situation in a cave you have never dived before. You have been fllowing the line for 15 minutes in vis so bad that you or your buddy cannot see your dive light pressed against your mask. Whats your average depth?

 

[TX101]

Hi BCS,

How do you find out your depth every 5 minutes?

How do you verify that your bottom timer is working correctly?

Isn't this "blindly following the digital readout"?

 

[jonnythan]

There's blindly following the NDL or deco numbers that it gives you, and then there's being aware of your depth, dive time, and dive parameters and deciding for yourself what your course of action will be.

It does no one any good to take phrases like the one you quoted and misuse them. You know very well that's not what was meant.

 

[detroit diver]

Usually the most conservative - which turns out to be the bottom timer + tables (my primary method) by a country mile. I just stay at the 6m stop until both computers clear if they still have time left after following the tables. (One's an AI nitrox console, the other a 3 gas wristmount)




Are you seriously telling me that GUE training protects against narcosis?

The hammerhead is an example.. lets change the example to: zero vis situation in a cave you have never dived before. You have been fllowing the line for 15 minutes in vis so bad that you or your buddy cannot see your dive light pressed against your mask. Whats your average depth?

1. In a way, yes. Do you know what the required gasses are for the depths that your example gives?

2. You knew your average depth and runtime before the viz gave out, and you've obviously turned the dive. Seeing as though you're going out the way you came in, your average/max depth shouldn't change, should it? And when you get into clear water, you can "clearly" see your runtime. This isn't that difficult. As Brando said, it just takes practice and the desire to learn it.

Or, are you suggesting that you started the dive in zero viz and continued it that way? If that's the case, my thoughts are that the computer is the least of your problems (you can't see it anyway).

 

[WJL]

Hi BCS,

How do you find out your depth every 5 minutes?

How do you verify that your bottom timer is working correctly?

Isn't this "blindly following the digital readout"?

The digital readout Brandon is referring to is the computer-calculated instructions to you the diver telling you such things as the computer's calculation of your ndl limits. These calculations are based on whatever algorithm the computer manufacturer programmed into the computer. All the algorithms are approximations based on incomplete theories. The computer results are at best guesses, expressed as certainties. If you pay attention and keep track of your dive as it progresses, you can easily do a better job at this than the computer.

If you feel better doing whatever the computer tells you to do instead of understanding the issues and paying attention as you are diving, then by all means follow the computer's instructions.

 

[TX101]

There's blindly following the NDL or deco numbers that it gives you, and then there's being aware of your depth, dive time, and dive parameters and deciding for yourself what your course of action will be.

See, thats the sort of thinking you get with an "all or nothing" paradigm, like (for example) DIR diving. You are suggesting that if you have a computer then your only option is to "blindly following the NDL or deco numbers that it gives you". So you either have a computer and it rots your brain OR you dont wear a computer and instantly you are a better diver than everyone else.

I'm suggesting you can have a computer AND use your brain. Plan your dive. Cut your tables. Dive the plan. And if it all goes titsup.com, you have a backup - in my case, two computers. DIR says your backup is your buddy/team and this is an admirable approach, but I'd like to know I have my own backup - just in case my buddy is incapacitated (eg heart attack) or we lose contact (sometimes a fact of life)

It does no one any good to take phrases like the one you quoted and misuse them. You know very well that's not what was meant.

My intention was not to misquote or take out of context. It was a serious question. If you have ONE electronic bottom timer/depth gauge and it fails, what do you do? okay, now what if you get seperated from your buddy?

 

[BCS]

Hi BCS,

How do you find out your depth every 5 minutes?

How do you verify that your bottom timer is working correctly?

Isn't this "blindly following the digital readout"?

Hi TX,
I see where you're going w/this, but humor for a minute and let me ask you the same thing about your computer....that is, how do you verify that your computer is working correctly? Personally, I keep aware of it as well as taking quick glances at my team's gauges when they're in view....basically I stay aware of my environment and actually have my head in the game while I'm diving. That is not to say that I am overtly monitoring my team's gauges and being overly cautious as I wait for some malfunction, but what it I am doing is using what's available to me underwater to ensure what we as a team have is actually functioning or not functioning and that this is known to me and the team.....I am curious how you know that yours is functioning correctly?? If you carry 2, well, which one is correct if there are two different readouts?? Are you gonna carry 3?? that's a bit rash...I mean three gauges....what if all three read differently...isn't this getting a bit complex??? Oh...you're gonna check your teammates....that's what I do too....except I knock out all that extra effort w/the other two backups and just check my team mates right from the get go...:10:
When I say "blindly" following the computer's schedule, what I am referring to is the diver that basically continues to watch his computer and as long as it says "cool to dive" goes ahead w/it....w/o any actual awarenes of what the dive actually entailed, depths, times, gas it took to get to certain key points in the dive, gas it'll take to get home and accomplish safety stops while sharing gas, time it took to handle an emergency, how deep the event took place,... etc..
The concerns you're voicing as far as verifying correct readout apply to gauge or computer....if something is amiss, I am going to be aware of it and I'll go to my partner's gauges then. My point is only that a computer is not going to give me the freedom I can have by being aware and being able to calc my deco. The computer will dictate what I must do and I must follow it or it will lock out. Dive computers are notorious for overly conservative shallow stops coupled w/penalties (at those shallow stops) for doing any kind of deep stop to account for dual phase deco planning. The computer does the thinking for the diver and builds in a complacency that works towards creating non-thinking divers. IOW, they tend to make one lazy and when this happens, the diver's overall awareness decreases....when the diver is unaware of their profile and when the computer does malfunction, they do not register it and that is when the "blind" following occurs....they just do whatever it tells them to do. This has happened and it has lead to injury on divers. I am not saying that any diver who dives a computer is going to die or even get hurt. Stats will of course, show that I'd be wrong if I said that. What I am trying to say is that the folks I dive with prefer the method I just reviewed and for the reasons I just stated. The original question (again---and the one I posted to answer) was why do we not use computers....this is why. My post is not intended as propoganda to change anyone's viewpoint, but only to answer the original question.
Is it for everyone?....no. Does it make my diving more enjoyable and simple?? Certainly. Those folks who do this and understand it will tell you that this knowledge/ability is empowering to a certain extent and helps create a confident and competent diver. For me, this is what leads to really enjoying myself underwater, that is knowing I am able and prepared to dive safely.

take care and dive safe!---b.

 

[kalvyn]

My intention was not to misquote or take out of context. It was a serious question. If you have ONE electronic bottom timer/depth gauge and it fails, what do you do? okay, now what if you get seperated from your buddy?

I only have one electronic bottom timer/depth gauge and I have had it fail on me during a dive. What I did was let my buddy know it was FUBAR, and just continued the dive (this was a cruiser dive, not getting deeper than about 70 fsw). If I had gotten seperated from my buddy after that point (not much of a chance in this particular case, but to honour your highly improbable "what if") I would have ended the dive using the "lost buddy" procedure we all learned in basic OW.

If the dive had been on the more challenging side, I would have called the dive as soon as my BT died. But I didn't feel it neccessary to call this particular dive on this particular evening as a result of losing my BT, so I didn't. If I had had a different buddy that evening, I most likely would have made a different choice as well.

There is just no "one way" to handle anything, in my opinion. I'll make the call based on the way I'm feeling, the buddy I'm diving with, the conditions of the dive, etc etc etc. I really like Brando's description of this philosophy in his posts, I don't think I could elaborate any more than he already has.

Jimmie