Spiegel Incident

[Web Monkey]

They weren't diving 80s.

OK, I just found a reference to 119's in the middle of the thread.

Even assuming 119, it's only a "safe" dive if nothing breaks, nobody screws up and nobody needs to share air. I wouldn't do it without doubles and a well-trained buddy that I trust.

Terry

 

[skdevlieger]

Hi Valhalla,
Don't know what you heard, but I guess that is how stories get started. I am in the Jackson Hospital in Miami with Matthew for 27 days now, by his side, and will be for at least a couple more months. Yes, we are indeed from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Yes we do have our own boats, one in Michigan for Lake Michigan fishing, and one is left at our Key Tavernier home, which is on the oceanside, where we visit about 4-5 trips per year, and rent the home out the rest of the year. No, we don't occupy a mooring ball on the SG. I was not on that dive that day, but took my daughter and her family (also scuba divers) to the airport in Miami.
Guess if you want to know any facts, I will be more than willing to answer them, if I know them. As you might guess, you have to really get humble ---- to come on scubaboard.com and volunteer all the details. I know there were alot of mistakes made that fateful day, and my only concern is that other dive instructors will be motivated to teach and train keenly from this incident, learn from it, and possibly save some lives. That is what I care about.
Also I wanted to come on this site to find out if anyone knew of anyone that went through something like this, and if they learned any golden secrets for care and rehabilitation. I just dont want to miss out on maximizing his care. I'm Matthew's Mom.

Here is the link to those of you who wish to keep updated on his daily progress from the Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, where he will be staying for at least 6 more weeks (until March 8th)

https://www.carepages.com/carepages/MatthewDeVlieger




For those of you who wish to help me pray, I post my written prayers here for you to join me in prayer for him. Thank you. You can also post any prayers for him of your own:
https://www.carepages.com/carepages/Prayersforhealing

 

[bsee65]

OK, I just found a reference to 119's in the middle of the thread.

Even assuming 119, it's only a "safe" dive if nothing breaks, nobody screws up and nobody needs to share air. I wouldn't do it without doubles and a well-trained buddy that I trust.

Terry

I'm not sure the 119 automatically makes it a safer dive. In fact, I suspect the extra air allowed them to stay at depth and build up a higher concentration of nitrogen in their blood. Maybe they even exceeded NDL, we don't have the data for that determination. Apparently their father was able to execute a safe dive at the location on an 80.

Any amount of air can be dived safely just as any amount can be misused.

 

[DandyDon]

As you might guess, you have to really get humble ---- to come on scubaboard.com and volunteer all the details. I know there were alot of mistakes made that fateful day...

Oh, many of us would be supportive if we can, as well as helpful in learning from the mistakes should y'all continue diving. There is no reason why you should quit, other than how you feel - and that's your call. I am sure the post incidence stress is tremendous on all of y'all and I do hope you are getting help from hospital pros and your personal network. Very best wishes to your son and all of y'all.

I'm sure that you can come back to this thread later on and compile a significant list of safety suggestions should y'all return to diving. We'll help if that if you'd like - then.

BTW, you are certainly welcome to call DAN and talk about this case with them personally. They have some of the best dive docs in the world. Non-Emergency Medical Questions
1-800-446-2671 or 1-919-684-2948, Mon-Fri, 8:30am-5:00pm (ET)

 

[Blue Sparkle]

sk,

I'm impressed with how you've come here, amongst strangers, while going through what you are, and all the while providing such honest, non-defensive answers. It must be difficult as people analyze it backwards and forwards, often saying critical things about your family.

Of course this sub-forum is for the purpose of discussing incidents and analyzing them, so that's what people are (and should be) doing; but still, I admire your fortitude, and your restraint and tolerance. It sounds as though your son has many of the same qualities, and they should stand him well during his rehabilitation.

From my perspective, I think you can rest assured that this thread will help to prevent future accidents. I'm a fairly new diver (who was considering a deep dive on the Spiegel Grove on the 29th), and I have learned some valuable lessons by reading this thread. It caught my attention because I was diving in the Key Largo area during the same time frame. There are many things I will be keeping in mind for the future. These are things that I have learned in training, but they have been driven home by your example.

Again, thank you for openly providing as much information as you have, and I applaud your attitude. I'm thinking of Matthew and wish him strength. It certainly sounds like he has a great support network in his family, friends, and community.

B.

 

[TSandM]

sk, if Matthew hasn't already read it, get him a copy of The Last Dive by Bernie Chowdhury. Bernie had an emergency ascent from a tech dive and was very severely injured -- IIRC, they gave little hope that he would walk again, or work, let alone dive. He's back to tech diving. This is not to say that Matthew could count on the same kind of recovery, but it might give him some hope and cheer.

On the inflator question, mine is designed with the inflate button pointing inward toward my body. If I want to inflate, I wrap my fingers around the inflater and grip the button. If I want to deflate, I take the corrugated hose gently between my thumb and third finger, and use my index finger to depress the button on the end. Holding it that way, my hand is nowhere near the inflate button.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

sk thank you and your family for being so honest and open. We all learn by mistakes... wise people learn from the mistakes of others. Thank you for giving us that opportunity. I assure you your contribution to this thread WILL make a difference to others. I am humbled by your selflessness and restraint in helping us learn.

I know some people will not agree but here I go...

I agree that divers should be able to plan their dives using tables
I agree that there seems to have been a failure to have (Or perhaps follow the plan)

I suggest the distraction of spearfishing and potentially Narcosis contributed to the failure to adequately moniter gas/deco levels.

I would further suggest that a dive computer with alarms may have been of use to remind them to check pressures/start ascent to avoid Deco.

 

[lamont]

Also, MAYBE (speculation here) any nitrogen bubbles HE DID have, would not have been as focused on his spine area, since bubbles tend to go to the highest point. Matthew was face down, and the highest point for him would have naturally been the back area. Andrew did have some slight bend issues in his knees, but no major hits like Matthew.

Matthew probably has a PFO (Andrew might or might not have a PFO, but it apparently wasn't a factor in Andrew's dive). I don't think that face-up decompression is going to be statistically any better.

 

[lamont]

On the inflator question, mine is designed with the inflate button pointing inward toward my body. If I want to inflate, I wrap my fingers around the inflater and grip the button. If I want to deflate, I take the corrugated hose gently between my thumb and third finger, and use my index finger to depress the button on the end. Holding it that way, my hand is nowhere near the inflate button.

Wasn't his reg sucking hard and he was just about to run out of gas? By the time my regs start sucking hard, I've only got a few more breaths left. It seems this whole discussion about the inflator hose is missing the broader picture that he was OOA.

And one way to mitigate the problem of hitting the wrong button and hammering a huge amount of gas into the wing is to train yourself to only do small adjustments to your buoyancy often. Even if I'm putting more gas into my wing, that means that I usually hit the inflator button multiple short times in a row. Once I've built up that kinetic memory, if I ever hit the inflator accidentally, I'm only going to push a small puff of air into it before noticing my mistake. Some LP inflator designs are also lower flow to help you titrate the amount of gas you add. And I do believe that I've hit my LP inflator accidentally before, but its always been a non-issue, and definitely never produced a runaway ascent...

 

[skdevlieger]

Thanks everyone. Here it is 3 am, and of course, I can't sleep. Actually reading all your posts has helped me a great deal as well. It is my greatest hope that his mistakes will help someone live, or at least be more educated and careful. So dive-masters, critique away !! Go for it. Whatever can promote understanding! Whatever can help !! Like I said, I care UTMOST that someone somewhere in the world can be helped. That is why I could truthfully disclose the details as I knew them.

TSandM- I will get that book. That may be a great help. At this point, Matthew has a medical diagnosis of "quadraplegic". He was told he will never run again, and if he ever walked again, it would be the most major miracle ever !!! The infarctions from the MRI are a solid dark core of damage through the center core of his spinal cord from the C6/8 down through the T11 region. I was told that "infarctions" means "dead" nerve cells, which means they don't come back. A very grim picture was painted indeed. But they don't know the heart of faith of Matthew.

It is absolutely beyond amazing that he has such total peace and perfect calm that passes all understanding about this. He came into this hospital with all smiles, and he hasn't stopped that genuine smile to all the nurses, doc's etc. who are caring for him. This young man really loves the living God, serves Him wholeheartedly, and has an immeasurable amount of trust and FAITH that even through this darkest of nights of the worst horrors of tragedy, God is with Him, is in control, and is holding his hand, and is still his best friend. It is such a huge eye opener TO ME, his Mom, to sit back and watch the total perfect peace that exudes from him. It is just shocking. We, of course, are praying for an enormous miracle, and I believe wholeheartedly. But if that does not happen, Matthew will just keep on trusting God in his peaceful way. It was all for a reason--maybe if only to help other divers focus on the details more. Who knows. If only one life can be saved, it was all worth it.

Sandie DeVlieger