Spearfishing

[pescador775]

Delete.

 

[pescador775]

Amphib, it is hard to believe that you are an "instructor", but then again, maybe not. I wasn't going unload on the euro crap but what the hey, I'll answer your challenge, however misdirected.

Let's start from the pointy end, the Hawaiian tip of the arrow. This and the Tahitian are identified with euro guns and is a simple, cheap way to create problems. They only work in the Hawaiian (down) configuration. The Tahitian tip may or may not toggle inside a fish. You have to shoot straight through. The Hawaiian is only slightly better as the wing, unless it is warped, may not toggle inside a fish. If it is warped the arrow will be deflected from straight and true. Either way, it dangles down, and I find it annoying to have a dangling wing on the end of the arrow. Who needs it? Contortions are required to remove the arrow. The shaft has to be turned and pushed back through. To heck with that. The solution is to install a stop ring and slip ring on the shaft. A rubber pad is glued to the inside of the wing. When the arrow strikes, the wing springs out. Pulling out the arrow is easy, obviously.

The closed muzzle of the euro gun interferes with the sight picture but the flimsy arrows need support so what can you do? The crazy combo of a screw on rubber band and a slot to accomodate a loop band is a recent concession to the obvious need for more than one band but introduces parts problems. Who needs two types of rubber on the same gun? The solution is an open muzzle or semi closed muzzle like the excellent design from Biller.

The barrel is a thin aluminum tube with bending problems when under load and which can be seen by the naked eye. All you have to do is look down the barrel. The carbon tubes are stiffer, and fracture regularly to prove it. Lately, to support the flimsy arrows, the euros have been adding glue on or screw on ribs giving them the idiotic name of "rail", implying that they are selling a rail gun, a name they lifted from previously classified Navy research. How pathetic is that? Hollywood would love it.

The arrows are made from spring steel. The only protection from rust is a thin coat of zinc. They rust, just like the old arbalete arrows. They have to use super tough steel because many of them install the attachment for the string BEHIND the notches, weak points, all. While we're at it, how goosey is it to jam the arrow and string into the sear box? Causes problems I bet.

The so called "articulated" wishbone is a clusterflop that only Doctor Strangelove could have conceived. By adding weight and complexity at that point the arrow and the heavy metal wishbone are a package that the rubbers have to accelerate down the tube. However, the arrows are so thin that cheaper strings and cables are difficult to insert reliably.

The butt has no cocking stock. Combine this with one super duper 3/4 inch rubber and you've got problems. Oh, I forgot, the euros say it is not strength, it is technique, hah, hah. Right on, bloke.

There's more, there is always more. These guns cost upwards of 300 dollars and are worth about 135 dollars.

 

[Amphibious]

Amphib, it is hard to believe that you are an "instructor", but then again, maybe not. I wasn't going unload on the euro crap but what the hey, I'll answer your challenge, however misdirected.

Hard to belive you keep persisting with your obliviously antiquated, ignorant information on Euro guns! I will reply to this from a purely freedive Spearos perspective (as I have 12yrs of this under my belt in 5 countries) because that’s what our debate surrounds.

Let's start from the pointy end, the Hawaiian tip of the arrow. This and the Tahitian are identified with euro guns and is a simple, cheap way to create problems. They only work in the Hawaiian (down) configuration. The Tahitian tip may or may not toggle inside a fish. You have to shoot straight through. The Hawaiian is only slightly better as the wing, unless it is warped, may not toggle inside a fish. If it is warped the arrow will be deflected from straight and true. Either way, it dangles down, and I find it annoying to have a dangling wing on the end of the arrow. Who needs it? Contortions are required to remove the arrow. The shaft has to be turned and pushed back through. To heck with that. The solution is to install a stop ring and slip ring on the shaft. A rubber pad is glued to the inside of the wing. When the arrow strikes, the wing springs out. Pulling out the arrow is easy, obviously.

Hmmm…. Where to start! First off I Have never had a Tahitian Rigged SHAFT (Arrows are for Archers!) and have killed 100’s of fish. But according to you a Hawaiian rig doesn’t work? Hmmm. Contortions are not needed, you pull the shaft through, flip it over, slide it back through. Simple. Stop rings, rubber pads, and the retaining rings slow down shafts and limit penetration by adding drag. (I don’t know ONE serious spearo that still uses this system) Unless I was shooting a ground fish I have rarely seen a Euro shaft fail to fully penetrate a fish. The narrow diameter and long barb give excellent holding power and make it very difficult for a fish to tear off (providing a good hit). Speed is everything in a eurogun. A eurogun will shoot farther, track faster and out penitrate any bulky JBL/Biller gun of the same size.

The closed muzzle of the euro gun interferes with the sight picture but the flimsy arrows need support so what can you do? The crazy combo of a screw on rubber band and a slot to accomodate a loop band is a recent concession to the obvious need for more than one band but introduces parts problems. Who needs two types of rubber on the same gun? The solution is an open muzzle or semi closed muzzle like the excellent design from Biller.

Inline rubbers aid in accuracy, the draw back is they are pricey. Funny you should mention these as they aren’t found on all Euro guns! Rob Allen, Rabitech and Omer for example have guns that accept bulk rubber right off the shelf. And again, muzzles, to say eurogun all have closed muzzeles reflects directly on your ignorance regaurding this topic! Open muzzels have been around for quite some time, and are available on factory guns. A closed muzzle has NOTHING to do with Shaft support, but rather it provides a stable platform for screw in bands.

The barrel is a thin aluminum tube with bending problems when under load and which can be seen by the naked eye. All you have to do is look down the barrel. The carbon tubes are stiffer, and fracture regularly to prove it. Lately, to support the flimsy arrows, the euros have been adding glue on or screw on ribs giving them the idiotic name of "rail", implying that they are selling a rail gun, a name they lifted from previously classified Navy research. How pathetic is that? Hollywood would love it.

The bending only becomes an issue in the longer guns, 100cm and longer. These guns are generally for openwater application and manufactures have fixed this problem by going to thicker walled tubes or Carbon. Carbon tubes USED to be very scratch prone, but as tech has advanced so has the carbon tubes. There is a wonder video on the Roballen site of a 200lb man jumping up and down on one of these carbon tubes while it is supported off the ground by a brick under each end. Funny thing, it doesn’t brake! Titanium tubes are another current retrofit for the longer gun. And teak laminate (like my 90cm Omer Master America), very stiff, and very gorgeous. Rails: a railgun is unbelievably quiet. A muffled “whump” is all you hear when you fire one. FAR quieter then any of the JBL’s Ive owned (3) or the one biller. No metallic noises. It supports the shaft, letting you get away with a shorter shaft. It is a gun with a rail = a railgun. Has nothing to do with Hollywood, just proper nomenclature.

The arrows are made from spring steel. The only protection from rust is a thin coat of zinc. They rust, just like the old arbalete arrows. They have to use super tough steel because many of them install the attachment for the string BEHIND the notches, weak points, all. While we're at it, how goosey is it to jam the arrow and string into the sear box? Causes problems I bet.

Hmmm.... not many plated spears out there anymore! All my guns have or have had Stainless shafts, some hardend SS. Have a look at any of the modern Speargun makers and see what kind of shafts they use! Omer, Rob Allen, Rabitech, etc. Mostly stainless. Not many problems inserting a shaft into the trigger mech if you have a proper line attached. The problem of attaching the line behind the notches is only a problem with the largest of fish, hand has been corrected with the use of stronger shafts (rare to see anything but stainless these days) and sharkfins.

The so called "articulated" wishbone is a clusterflop that only Doctor Strangelove could have conceived. By adding weight and complexity at that point the arrow and the heavy metal wishbone are a package that the rubbers have to accelerate down the tube. However, the arrows are so thin that cheaper strings and cables are difficult to insert reliably.

The argument surround articulated wishbones is a never ending one. I’ve never had one break but know divers that have. I’ve never had an issue with one. Don’t; mind them at all. They work just fine and I’ll wager break far less then the metal wire wishbones found on JBL guns and Billers (not sure what they use today, but they used to have metal bones). The contstant flexing of these wire wishbones promotes fatigue and eventual failure. Many divers have gone to Spectra/Dynema wishbones. (stock on Riffe, rob Allen, and Rabitech guns). Not sure why you would want to use a cheaper “string”. A small investment in some heavy duty mono, or spectra is a sound one, and works just fine.

The butt has no cocking stock. Combine this with one super duper 3/4 inch rubber and you've got problems. Oh, I forgot, the euros say it is not strength, it is technique, hah, hah. Right on, bloke.

Lots of guns come with Cocking pads. Omer’s. Beuchat’s, etc. a cocking pad built into a wetsuit makes the is a mute point for most divers. But it can be problematic to the suitless diver. But you can tough it out. I did. (grew up spearfishing in water that didn’t require a suit.

There's more, there is always more. These guns cost upwards of 300 dollars and are worth about 135 dollars.

There are LOTS of great Euroguns under $300. do some research.

 

[av8er23]

I love the threads that turn into pissing matches.

 

[100days-a-year]

He was fine til he said a Euro would fly faster,farther+penetrate more than a Biller or JBL.That's ridiculous.I can get almost 600# of pull on a 3 band Biller or JBL.No Euro will out-penetrate that unless it was on the tip of a torpedo.They do track faster but are basically useless in most hands against bigger American bottom fish.When is the last time you saw a commercial diver with on in his hands?Answer...never.

 

[Amphibious]

He was fine til he said a Euro would fly faster,farther+penetrate more than a Biller or JBL.That's ridiculous.I can get almost 600# of pull on a 3 band Biller or JBL.No Euro will out-penetrate that unless it was on the tip of a torpedo.They do track faster but are basically useless in most hands against bigger American bottom fish.When is the last time you saw a commercial diver with on in his hands?Answer...never.

ok, I concede, you JBL or biller will out penitrate, but only inside a meter or two before the lumbering slow, high drag spear slows down. I've owned a 450XHD, and a 120cm Euro will shoot farther, faster, and out penitrate (at range) every time. 600# ? who's specs are you using? 3 20mm bands will not produce 600#. more like 350. I suppose you belive the range claims on the JBL site too? HAHA

when was the last time you saw a comercial diver freediving?

 

[100days-a-year]

Meter?
JBL website specs?
Commercial diver freediving?
Slow lumbering shaft?
It's "penetrate"
Dude,it is obvious your are more uninformed and elitist in your attitudes than is common with overbearing pompous freedivers(fortunately rare)
I have at least 3000 SCUBA spearfishing dives and months of accumulated freediving time since 1971.I measure my 3/4"x22" and 3/4"x24" bands with a 250# handscale at their full pulls of 39" to 41" on 54" guns.They are black rubber cable wishbone.In what way are my 5/16" shafts different than those used in a Eurogun?With coefficient of drag being dependent on ratio of diameter to length a long 20% larger in diameter shaft may have less drag.You do the math and come back with something other than counterintuitive chatter that smacks of arrogance and patronization.
BTW let's see some pix of your fish.
Oh and my static is 5min+and dynamic in the water spearfishing of near 3min,not bad for a fat,old outtashape Scubadiver.

 

[Amphibious]

ah, nitpicking at my use of metric and spelling? really scrape'n the bottom of the barrel arn't we? first off this started as an debate over FREEDIVING equipment. so I could care less what you use for scuba.

if you have found a 3/4" band that can MAINTAIN 250lbs of pull after a few shots, or being at full draw for more then a few minutes, you better pattent it and start the marketing macine going, because as yet, I've never heard of this on the open market. might want to have your scale certified first.

I have virtually no pics of any of my diving or spearfishing, this is what happens when you frequently dive in countries/locations where photography is banned, or are solo. other then that I rarely take pics of my catch, but I've take lots of the finnished product, apres BBQ

now why spitting out the freediving stats? trying to "wow" me?

I'm done here, for now, I'll leave you guys to your UDT Vests and 70's spearfishing technology. would love to hunt with you guys, would be like an episode of Seahunt

 

[Florabama]

Run sheepshead through the mouth as well, they aren't afraid to bite after strung and they have some crazy man-teeth in their mouth...

Same for triggers. One took a chunk out of my leg as I was dragging it on a stringer once. It never happend again -- I keep em on a long line.

 

[Ironhed]

Are you a jbl rep lol. I personally do not like the jbl guns nor the billers for that matter. Safety what is that? I have no safety on my wong guns nor do I need one. bands loaded means ready to fire. if I need a safety unload the bands not hard to do. the explorer has to be the biggest waste of 100 bucks anyone could spend. what will you kill with that? triggers and sheepies that is it. Buy a decent gun and you will be shooting decent fish simple as that. btw I can shoot sheeps and trigs with my wong when the big fish are not around. you cant say the same about the explorer.