Spearfishing

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Not everyone wants to ride a 50# AJ to the bottom of the sea. Some people are very happy with sheeps, mangroves, triggers, flounder, ect.

Personally, I like to take slightly bigger fish on occasion. Doesn't mean there isn't a reasonable market for smaller guns(which alot of people use in freshwater as well!). On another note, you don't need a Wong or Riffe to take bigger fish either, I use a 54" Biller with 3 bands.

Don't rely so much on gear...

 

[Ironhed]

I don't rely so much on gear but I like to take larger fish when given the opportunity. a jbl explorer is about the smallest most useless gun out there. not saying billers cannot do the job because they can especially larger ones 54" is a big gun. one of my good buddies has a biller and shoots big fish with it. My point is if you want to take the right tool for the job get a large gun you can always shoot small fish with a big gun but not the other way around. I like everything to work smoothly when I decide to pull the trigger. personally I don't like aj but cobia are nice and how would a jbl explorer be on a nice cobia. what about 50# grouper you would rather pass on one of them and shoot sheepshead? btw I use a 60" 5/16" shaft in a 57" gun single flopper with 2 bands easily penetrates through a giant fish head. my buddies biller could not do the same it still killed the fish but the tip was lodged in the head requiring about 30 minutes with a hammer and chisel to remove.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

a jbl explorer is about the smallest most useless gun out there. My point is if you want to take the right tool for the job get a large gun you can always shoot small fish with a big gun but not the other way around.

If you're diving a shallow reef in 15' of water and surge, searching for small game in the first place, I'd much rather that 20" JBL than my 54" Biller. Big fish aren't found everywhere and the manueverability of a smaller gun becomes a luxury. I opt for a polespear in these cases to be honest, its even cheaper. A little 20" is smaller and would work just as well, costing a bit more.

what about 50# grouper you would rather pass on one of them and shoot sheepshead?

Would I pass on the grouper? Nope. Would someone else not wanting to fight a bigger fish? Possibly! The difference between myself and you, is that I'm open minded enough to realize that everyone may not be out here going for the biggest fish.

 

[pescador775]

hardhed, the Explorer is a good recommendation for a beginning spearo. He may or may not like spearfishing but he will have only spent about 100 bucks to find out and could recover half of that if he decides sprearing is not for him. Sheepshead are good game nothing to be ashamed of.

Euroguns are a pistol design where what is needed is a rifle. The buttstock of the Biller presents counter weight to the barrel stock resulting in dampening of oscillations caused by recoil. The stock also greatly aids in cocking the rubber bands. Reduced effort means more endurance in a long day of shooting.

The slip ring which I recommend has never caused detectable drag. It looks like it should but my Biller 54, with only two 5/8, 140# bands, will kill a 20 pound grouper at 22 feet distance. Usually, the arrow will not go through at that range but the spring loaded wing will hold fast every time. Having a reliable, good setup is more important than drag calculations of interest only to marketing departments of the companies.

For more information on the excellent Biller 54 and what can be done with it see my articles on DeeperBlue: modifying the Biller 54 and Biller Carribean

A search on Blue or Spearboard will yield into on how to build a reliable sliptip how to make cable wishbones, and how to make a "flight tab" (to replace wishbone notches). My handle is "peskydor"

 

[Ironhed]

pestydor:
I never said there was shame in shooting sheephead. second My whole point is that tiny guns are a waste in my opinion as they are one dimensional. I have shot everything from sheeps to huge grouper with my one gun. You can find a million guns out there better than an explorer and alot of them are 200 bucks or less. if you find that you lost interest in the sport ebay the thing hell I have made money on gear reselling it. if you buy something that people actually want that is. but junk and you might never find anyone wanting to buy it used.

 

[pescador775]

One common thread in the responses from Amphibious: Every time I point out a deficiency on certain Euro guns, he refers to a design change relating to some particular gun which refutes my general comment. There are a lot of euros out there from many countries so it would appear that there is an infinite supply of rebuttles and this debate could go on. Some of the euros are changing, and in response to the type of criticisms that I have offered. These changes have taken unusual forms like the one gun which has a loop muzzle AND screw in muzzle. The problem is that the euro gun is a deficient platform for making these improvements without turning into a JBL or similar. That's what the mfgs definitely do not want, for the market appeal of these guns is to the generation who enthused over Ninja Turtles and have now come of age. As long as the gun looks racey and has a good story (world records, yeahh), the market appeal is there. Price and practical performance profile is secondary, their testimonials will fill in the gaps no matter what.

 

[rigdiver]

Same for triggers. One took a chunk out of my leg as I was dragging it on a stringer once. It never happend again -- I keep em on a long line.

I had a trigger bite my suit right on the butt and would not let go. Good thing it did not get skin. Now, I either put em in a mesh bag or gut and gill them before putting em on the stringer. That way they are good and dead.
Bill

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

...second My whole point is that tiny guns are a waste in my opinion as they are one dimensional. I have shot everything from sheeps to huge grouper with my one gun...

Sometimes that one dimension is enough. You obviously don't dive on shallow reefs where surge is a problem and manueverability makes a larger difference. Your one gun will present issues at that point. Still useable? Of course! Best tool for the job? I think not.

...but junk and you might never find anyone wanting to buy it used.

Not everyone buys with the intention of selling. No matter what gun you buy, if you sell it used, it'll be for a loss.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I don't think you are taking into account that not everyone will be diving the deep blue sea with monster fish.

You are entitled to your opinion though...

 

[pescador775]

Bugman, I am just about finished converting a large, old Sea Hunter into a smaller version. Looks real nice, my second such conversion. I need a gun which will be handy for shooting sheepies in water with 6-15 foot vis with occasional opportunity to tag a 50 pound black drum. Things can blow by you quick in this rocky and murky place. The gun stock is only about 39 inches long but because of the rear sear/ forward grip (Addict design) the rubber pull is 33 inches, same as the Riffe Midrange. I guess it looks a bit like the metaltec Midrange. Using my Biller 54 or Island in these circumstances would be ridiculous and unworkable.

 

[pescador775]

Contortions are not needed, you pull the shaft through, flip it over, slide it back through. Simple. Stop rings, rubber pads, and the retaining rings slow down shafts and limit penetration by adding drag. (I don’t know ONE serious spearo that still uses this system) Unless I was shooting a ground fish I have rarely seen a Euro shaft fail to fully penetrate a fish. The narrow diameter and long barb give excellent holding power and make it very difficult for a fish to tear off (providing a good hit). Speed is everything in a eurogun. A eurogun will shoot farther, track faster and out penitrate any bulky JBL/Biller gun of the same size.

If the shaft pulls back through so easy, then you have admitted that it won't hold when it counts. The slip ring resides behind the wing and rests in the shadow of the slipstream created by the pointy end. It sees little resistance. The rings have been eliminated on euro guns to save a little money and due to ignorance. "Serious" spearos are not necessarily geniuses. However, those who own speargun companies are usually pretty smart and make sure their customers are issued "talking points" which the spearos share among themselves until the myths are solidly incorporated in the culture.The slip ring does not cause much resistance as the spear passes through the fish. Flesh is elastic and the shock wave produced by a sudden impact radiates out as the arrow pushes through. The flesh closes up quickly but by that time the tip and slip ring are already through the fish. Rob Allen and Omer are spending too much time shooting plywood. It means nothing. About the vaunted range of euroguns: that is propaganda, nothing less. The laws of physics allow for only small variations in the range of current designs, regardless of style. This is determined almost exclusively by the length of gun and traction in the rubber bands. You can't get something for nothing and the outrageous claims of some euro manufacturers are not convincing. One such claim has to do with "in line" band stretch. The angle subtended by the bands in a large gun is less than 1 degree. The increase in friction (SINE theta X R) is almost nothing, particularly since the arrow rides on a thin film of water anyway. The angular loss of momentum is also small. However, there are small variations used by Riffe and the euros, such as elimination of the slide ring (not the slip ring) which can improve range by a couple feet in a medium size gun. There are also some small but useful changes invented by clever home builders but that is beyond the range of this discussion.