South florida boat traffic, points of view, dive flags and people

[hedgehog47]

I think when you obtain your boating licence (do you even need one in florida? I have to wonder) you should be educated at least on the basics of scuba diving. on many occasions I've had my safety marker (with my attached to it) pulled out of the water by curious boaters, then I surface, let them have it... and they saunter off like it's not a big deal. very frustrating. a friend had his caught in their prop and shredded a $75 marker

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

No licenses here -- we are the wild west (wild south??)

---------- Post added August 6th, 2015 at 05:07 PM ----------

Few comments for clarification.

-At the time I didn't think it was necessary for anyone to leave the water, as long as the lines didn't cross, each group could've gone at their own rhythm.

-When I revved the engine was not in any way directed to the divers, there was a pretty big boat coming their way (at the time both free and scuba divers were kinda close). Very soon after that boat altered his course is when the divers surfaced, if they would've stay under few more minutes the currents would've separated us enough for each group to have plenty of space.

-I didn't attempt radio communications but I did have my radio on, at high volume on channel 16.

-The tone on my initial post was hard, and I am aggressive when I'm guarding divers regardless if they keep their air in a bottle or their lungs.

-I didn't post looking for agreement or criticism, I posted hoping to get a response from either the divers or the boaters. I wanted to fight someone at that point, but truly to tell the divers that at no time they were in danger from my boat, and ask the boaters what were they thinking? that taking divers out is not just dropping them in the water and then drift far away until they resurface, at least not in S. Florida and definitely not close to an inlet.

Fair enough. Here is how I used to handle this (back when I had a boat and freedove/scubadove (??) off of Miami.

In all cases, like you, BIG flag flown from my T-Top.

Freedive team had a flag float as well.

When freediving, I stayed very close to (right next to if I could) the team. Stayed in neutral when I could but always stayed real close. Too many idiots or uneducated boaters to take chances with people on the surface for a long time. W Freedivers were mobile and could easily coordinate with my boat position and keep clear if I had to nudge the gears. When one went down, I always went into neutral until they surfaced, but always kept it very close.

I was much looser with scuba divers, mainly because there was no guarantee they would surface right next to the flag. I did not want to be running around chasing close to the flag when I could not be sure when or exactly where they were coming up. So, I would stand off more (not 300 feet, but easily 100 feet at times depending on the current and area). The usual dive plan would be for all divers to stay with the flag carrier and surface near the flag--it being their responsibility not to get too far away. On my boat or with friends, we did not due multiple teams with their own flags, so I can't comment on how the pro dive boats handle things under those circumstances.

In all cases, if boats were approaching, I would position myself between the boat and the flag but not approach the boat any further. I would not run towards them at speed or anything like that, due to safety concerns for the divers below and also concerns about getting too far from the flag and then having to search for it. They would of course change direction, sometimes still passing too close, but I would not chase after them because I would only be contributing to the risk for the divers, having two boats in gear around the flag.

Unfortunately, I would have to assume that any boat near me did not know what a dive flag meant. Over time, I learned that most did, but there were enough exceptions so that I always followed that assumption.

However, S. Florida is crowded with many users, doing many different legitimate things, often at speed, perfectly lawfully. That is why I did not rely on the surface float/flag as they can be hard to see, and would keep my boat and its BIG flag as close as prudent for whichever divers I was carrying.

I might also add that idiocy is not limited to boaters. One time in my life, I came within a hair's breadth of hitting divers who surfaced right under my boat, while I was at speed, and who had no flag, no float, and who had not deployed any SMB. Their boat was a speck in the distance and even if it had a flag they were way, way from it (more than 300 feet and maybe twice that) so that it was not visible.

 

[scubadada]

I was hit by a speeding fishing boat in Delray while on the surface in direct contact with my flag 2 years ago Aug 3. Surfaced in a blinding summer squall while the boat was headed in for a fishing tournament weigh-in. I made an emergency descent and escaped with relatively minor injuries and was back in the water in 10 days. Boat captain was cited for reckless boating, excessive speed, and no watch.

Be careful, be ready to make a quick escape

 

[danvolker]

One of my pet peeves is the absolute stupidity of the Law regarding dive flags....it is complete nonsense, that we tow a flag to protect ourselves from boaters.....and it is ignorant that a diver should be given a ticket for failing this....

The way you stay safe, which has nothing to do with the law--is by having your boat follow you, and ward off boaters headed for you.
The boaters going much over 20mph, can not be expected to see your dive flag until it is much too late....Only the action of having your own boat intercede for you, is going to make you safe. Whether you tow a milk jug, or a round ball, or a torpedo with or without a flag, the flag itself connected to the diver is irrelevant--your boat sees your float, and follows you. Your boat makes you safe, not your near useless dive flag...The big dive flag on a dive boat can definitely help, particularly if your boat positions themself between you and the fast approaching drunken boaters.

 

[scubadada]

One of my pet peeves is the absolute stupidity of the Law regarding dive flags....it is complete nonsense, that we tow a flag to protect ourselves from boaters.....and it is ignorant that a diver should be given a ticket for failing this....

The way you stay safe, which has nothing to do with the law--is by having your boat follow you, and ward off boaters headed for you.
The boaters going much over 20mph, can not be expected to see your dive flag until it is much too late....Only the action of having your own boat intercede for you, is going to make you safe. Whether you tow a milk jug, or a round ball, or a torpedo with or without a flag, the flag itself connected to the diver is irrelevant--your boat sees your float, and follows you. Your boat makes you safe, not your near useless dive flag...The big dive flag on a dive boat can definitely help, particularly if your boat positions themself between you and the fast approaching drunken boaters.

Hi Dan,

What if you have multiple flags from a single boat that end up widely separated during the dive? As you know, this happens pretty frequently in Boynton Beach. One or more flags is on the outside of the reef, the others are on the inside, some are taking photos and using reef hooks, others are not, some are hunting, others are not... The boat cannot possibly protect all of these flags equally.

Good diving, Craig

 

[danvolker]

Hi Dan,

What if you have multiple flags from a single boat that end up widely separated during the dive? As you know, this happens pretty frequently in Boynton Beach. One or more flags is on the outside of the reef, the others are on the inside, some are taking photos and using reef hooks, others are not, some are hunting, others are not... The boat cannot possibly protect all of these flags equally.

Good diving, Craig

Hi Craig,
In all the places I have enjoyed drift diving, this issue you point out is most extreme in Boynton.
The current is just mild enough to allow very disparate diver trajectories
Private boaters should not have this issue, as they should just be dropping one group with a float--and they can have their boat follow and protect...
A charter with 3 to 5 groups is a much bigger production...and when macro photographers hook off on one side, and high speed cruisers run a mile away....what happens, is someone is not going to be protected by the boat....and the dive flag they have is NOT going to protect them either....If it was known ahead of time that this would be the result, then one option would be to forbid the behavior that causes this degree of dive group separation....another, would be to have the dive group(s) that would be expected to get far from the charter boat, towing either an inflatable kayak with a huge dive flag...or, a scupper pro type kayak with a huge dive flag...the charter boat could have this type of gear hanging on the outside of the tank rack --high up over the water..like a depth charge
The charter boat could then sit just off the float of the most needy divers, and when they are back aboard, it could run to the kayak group(s).

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Dan, I agree that most standard float/flag rigs (the white foam ball or that yellow inner tube) are small, low, and difficult to see and a boat going 20 knots won't see them until well within 300 feet. This is especially true if the floats are leaning due to current or being pulled by the divers (more of a problem with the white foam ball floats). I don't fault the law for that, however, which merely tells divers to mark their activities, and boaters to avoid--both good common sense things. The law sets minimum standards (12 x 12 flag) but no reason divers cannot do better if they want. I think the bigger orange pull floats with taller masts and bigger flags are enough to see at a distance in decent conditions (sunny day, relatively calm seas) even at normal speeds (20-30 knots) if you are scanning the water. I don't think charters have to go to the extremes of carrying kayaks for each team, which no one is going to do any for practical reasons, but I think larger orange torpedo or board floats with bigger flags would be good, but it might make things hard on the flag-carrier at depth. Everything is a trade-off.

Scubadada, I remember well reading about your injury and am glad you're back! Also glad that the idiot (at speed in the rain, unbelievable, just to weigh a fish) got at least some punishment.

 

[scubadada]

We also need the cooperation and assistance from the boaters, especially when the sea and weather conditions complicate matters and decrease the visibility of floats and flags. Reduced speed and a lookout, especially when running over the reefs, would be a good start. It would be best if it were a requirement in order to comply with the required distance from a dive flag

 

[Ana]

At the risk of sounding negative, you're just dreaming.

I was floored when I learned than for more than half of the vessels, the people on board do not go in the water. Never mind diving, they don't touch the water unless they get splashed while on board. So their perspective is skewed in relation to us and what we do, things that seem obvious to you is crazy talk for them. That segment of boaters don't know when they are going over reefs or sand, if they run over a diver they may thing they just hit a coconut, there's dozens of them floating around these days.

We also need the cooperation and assistance from the boaters, especially when the sea and weather conditions complicate matters and decrease the visibility of floats and flags. Reduced speed and a lookout, especially when running over the reefs, would be a good start. It would be best if it were a requirement in order to comply with the required distance from a dive flag

 

[danvolker]

Dan, I agree that most standard float/flag rigs (the white foam ball or that yellow inner tube) are small, low, and difficult to see and a boat going 20 knots won't see them until well within 300 feet. This is especially true if the floats are leaning due to current or being pulled by the divers (more of a problem with the white foam ball floats). I don't fault the law for that, however, which merely tells divers to mark their activities, and boaters to avoid--both good common sense things. The law sets minimum standards (12 x 12 flag) but no reason divers cannot do better if they want. I think the bigger orange pull floats with taller masts and bigger flags are enough to see at a distance in decent conditions (sunny day, relatively calm seas) even at normal speeds (20-30 knots) if you are scanning the water. I don't think charters have to go to the extremes of carrying kayaks for each team, which no one is going to do any for practical reasons, but I think larger orange torpedo or board floats with bigger flags would be good, but it might make things hard on the flag-carrier at depth. Everything is a trade-off.

Scubadada, I remember well reading about your injury and am glad you're back! Also glad that the idiot (at speed in the rain, unbelievable, just to weigh a fish) got at least some punishment.

Hi Guy,

I remember when I used to have my 34 foot Regal...a Booze Cruiser I had modded into something good for 4 or 5 of us to dive from....I could be running along a reef line, going 25 or 30mph, headed for our dive site.....and if the seas were anything over like a foot or so high, the typical dive flags with the white foam, would be practically invisible until I was close to 3 seconds away at this cruising speed...and for me, sure I was looking carefully, and fine with making a sudden turn to keep max distance for divers in the water....However....how many sport fish or fast private boats are cruising along at over 25, some sipping beers and chatting....and NOT keeping their eyes peeled--not looking for dive flags...And even when they do see a flag, will they crank on the wheel and make a heroic 90 degree turn--obviously spilling everyone's beer? They usually don't even know what a DIVE FLAG is, or means....Some think it is a place you can drop a hook on, and are more likely to find fish

There are so many of these boaters, that I could not even imagine wanting to dive from anything but a charter boat I trust.
Back when I had my boat, no one wanted to be captain--everyone wanted to dive. So when I was diving from my boat, who would be the ever vigilant captain, protecting us, was always a crap shoot