Some days are harder than others

[doctormike]

I will reset bands, loosen shoulder straps, and experiment with which bolt holes I'm using. Thanks, again!!!

What does your tech instructor say about changing configuration? He not only presumably has experience in this area, he is in a position to observe you directly. In most of my advanced training we did spend a good deal of time talking about optimizing equipment, and someone like your instructor would be more appropriate than people in an online forum to help you make gear changes.

I mean, this forum is terrific for a lot of stuff, I often use it to bounce things off more experienced divers. And it's obviously fine for you to chat about your training here. But in this particular case, it seems that you are having significant trim and buoyancy problems and are addressing them by changing a number of things yourself, based on this thread.

Obviously totally up to you, but not the way that I would do it...

 

[cool_hardware52]

I have not measured, so I don't know which I have, but my tanks are the older "skinny neck" 120s with the angled valves. How would I measure to tell which I have? If it's end to end on the manifold, I can only measure that with it disassembled, right? Center to center on the tanks would tell me?

A tape measure is your friend. 25.4 mm / inch. A 215mm manifold will be 8.46" center to center.

Tobin

 

[stuartv]

A tape measure is your friend. 25.4 mm / inch. A 215mm manifold will be 8.46" center to center.

Tobin

Right, I just didn't know where to apply said tape measure. End-to-end of the manifold piece itself or what. Now I understand I should measure center of the tank to center of the other tank. Thanks.

---------- Post added October 19th, 2015 at 05:52 PM ----------

What does your tech instructor say about changing configuration? He not only presumably has experience in this area, he is in a position to observe you directly. In most of my advanced training we did spend a good deal of time talking about optimizing equipment, and someone like your instructor would be more appropriate than people in an online forum to help you make gear changes.

I mean, this forum is terrific for a lot of stuff, I often use it to bounce things off more experienced divers. And it's obviously fine for you to chat about your training here. But in this particular case, it seems that you are having significant trim and buoyancy problems and are addressing them by changing a number of things yourself, based on this thread.

Obviously totally up to you, but not the way that I would do it...

Agreed. I just didn't get much time to talk to my instructor about it on Sunday. It was just the way things went that day. I have emailed him to get his feedback. But, as usual, I'm impatient, so in the meantime, I thought I would whine about it here. I really wasn't trying to ask for help, though I really do appreciate the help that has been offered. Honestly, I just wanted to share my experience with an ear or two that could appreciate and possibly commiserate. But, the insight that has been shared so far actually makes me a lot more optimistic that I can get this all sorted out.

 

[tbone1004]

so I'd put the bands back where they belong
the halcyon wing is about as good as it gets for shape design though it is designed around 8" tanks it shouldn't matter that much.
Odds are your manifold is standard spacing, but Sherwood did make some slightly narrower, but not by much Center to Center can also be inside edge to outside edge of the necks, the valve openings etc, doesn't really matter, but doesn't really change anything.

If you have straps set for a 3mm and you're in a drysuit that would absolutely be my first cause for concern. Verify the fit of the straps, especially the shoulders and once you loosen them up enough and give a bit extra to the crotch strap you should be fine. Part of why most of us have a rig for wet and dry diving because it isn't just a slight adjustment of the shoulders.

 

[doctormike]

Agreed. I just didn't get much time to talk to my instructor about it on Sunday. It was just the way things went that day. I have emailed him to get his feedback. But, as usual, I'm impatient, so in the meantime, I thought I would whine about it here. I really wasn't trying to ask for help, though I really do appreciate the help that has been offered. Honestly, I just wanted to share my experience with an ear or two that could appreciate and possibly commiserate. But, the insight that has been shared so far actually makes me a lot more optimistic that I can get this all sorted out.

You know, that is true, you did not actually ask for help.

On the other hand, no one really wants to "commiserate", that would be more appropriate if for some reason beyond your control you found out that you were unable to dive doubles.

Our first instinct is to try to help you fix the problem. And we really DO want to see you succeed! That's where the advice that you are getting from Tobin and others is helpful. I just meant that nothing is as useful as an experienced pair of eyes on you in the water...

And you weren't really expecting to get at most a single response of "OK, then."

 

[decompression]

It can be very humbling indeed, don't get discouraged.

I think doing an/dp in 120 steels at your level is a poor choice on your instructors part. I've learned over the years that hp100's or Al 80's are a much better set up for very new to doubles students. Regardless it just makes it tougher on you.
Anyways, it sounds like not enough time was spent initially getting weighting and trim squared away.

I've mentioned before, not having buoyancy down before adding multitasking makes for a very demanding course. To your credit and the sign of a tech diver is an endless obsession with tweaking gear. You may not have things dialed in (do we ever?) during the course but you should feel confident in your ability to reason through your issues and take steps to solve them.

Most people have issues with reaching valves, there are ALOT of variables that affect this, between your instructor and the ever helpful board you should find a solution.

Keep posting, keep the questions coming......

Funny. Diver slips and falls off boat - YouTube


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[The Chairman]

Getting your buoyancy down can be downright frustrating for some. Put the bands back just under the crown. Move everything else as you see fit, but do it slowly and one variable at a time. Dry suit/wet suit/bathing suit, I've never had to add weight on double 120s (HP or LP).

Do a blind test. Get as neutral as you can and as close to the bottom as you can. Close your eyes for twenty seconds, try to stay still and then see where you are at. Increase it to 40 seconds and even a minute. You'll stop making those automatic adjustments and you'll have a better idea how your trim really is.

 

[elgoog]

If you have straps set for a 3mm and you're in a drysuit that would absolutely be my first cause for concern. Verify the fit of the straps, especially the shoulders and once you loosen them up enough and give a bit extra to the crotch strap you should be fine.

I went from an 8/7mm SolaFx to a TLS350+XM450 and had to lengthen the shoulder straps by ~3" and the crotch strap by ~1". I will end up tweaking it more but that was the general range that felt good diving dry.
I dived the drysuit with the rig in wetsuit configuration and could barely extend my arms out in front of me when in trim, even less successful was when trying to reach my single tank valve. After increasing the strap lengths, there was a huge increase in comfort as well as range of motion - still can't quite get to that valve but I'm betting that's more due to flailing around + general lack of technique than the straps being too tight.

 

[tbone1004]

if you need to get to the valves and are close, try letting a bit of air out of the wing then going a bit head down, let gravity doing the work for you....

 

[RJP]

the halcyon wing is about as good as it gets for shape design

Hmmm...

I'd agree that's true for the Evolve wings (I've got a 40 and a 60) but the Explorer 55 is a flying taco...