So you heard retractor is a bad idea, I had my first hand experience today

[SnorkelLA]

In a ideal situaion, I do agree both of us should have brought a knife, BUT it wouldn't change what happened nor the outcome, at least this time around. Don't you agree?

And no one is trying to look DIR and this isn't even about DIR. My buddy isn't a DIR diver. The only reference to DIR I have ever made was to indicate the size of the knife. So let's leave DIR out of this.

I was talking about MY setup. Not yours. I don't care how you dive, I was talking about MY DIR setup and how I didn't think cave line and a bolt snap is a good way of securing, I was stating why I use MY retractor and how easy it would be for me to completely disconnect it at both points and reassemble. Maybe if you would actually read my post with some comprehension I wouldn't have to be explaining myself. The isolated last sentence clearly states "LONG STORY SHORT, RETRACTORS WORK BEST FOR ME".

I'm just going to attribute this to a lack of coffee on your part . Now, I'm going to go kiss my retractor

 

[DevonDiver]

I follow a "modified to my own preference" style of DIR setup. I ditched the "cave line and bolt snap"

Then why mention "DIR"... which it isn't?

Your preference is an AI Computer, in a console, on a retractor. That is your preference. It's confusing to many, if you keep mentioning "DIR" within that context.

I have a blue car, except it's white. It's blue "modified to my own preference"...


Personally, I think that retractors typically appeal to people who don't have the confidence, experience or diving frequency necessary to understand that using a simple bolt-snap is just as easy and convenient as a retractor, except for some small commitment necessary to develop a little muscle memory to access it as an ingrained, unconscious function.

That may mean that the 'convenience' of a retractor is a valid factor for selection. Not everyone has enough diving/training opportunity to embed all the 'small things' into automatic physical processes.

However, "DIR" - whether mentioned in terms of equipment configuration, protocols or an over-arching philosophy, does not support an equipment or skill preference on the basis of convenience or lack of practice.

 

[AfterDark]

Then why mention "DIR"... which it isn't?

Your preference is an AI Computer, in a console, on a retractor. That is your preference. It's confusing to many, if you keep mentioning "DIR" within that context.

I have a blue car, except it's white. It's blue "modified to my own preference"...


Personally, I think that retractors typically appeal to people who don't have the confidence, experience or diving frequency necessary to understand that using a simple bolt-snap is just as easy and convenient as a retractor, except for some small commitment necessary to develop a little muscle memory to access it as an ingrained, unconscious function.

That may mean that the 'convenience' of a retractor is a valid factor for selection. Not everyone has enough diving/training opportunity to embed all the 'small things' into automatic physical processes.

However, "DIR" - whether mentioned in terms of equipment configuration, protocols or an over-arching philosophy, does not support an equipment or skill preference on the basis of convenience or lack of practice.

If you ever, (God forbid) develop arthrits in your hands and find it painful and difficult to operate snap bolts, you may want to revist that statement. Or quit diving since you can't do it right. Choices get tough as we age.

 

[GrandpaScuba]

There is nothing wrong with using retractors. When used with consoles, they help protect the reef (if you are diving around a reef). I frequently see divers using an inappropriate retractor for dive lights. Dive lights are heavy and if your retractor is not intended for that weight, then the light will just hang at the end of a long cord. If your buddy was using the correct retractor for the size of light he was carrying, the light should have retracted back to his chest when he let go. That's the point of a retractor.

---------- Post Merged at 09:52 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:46 AM ----------

If you ever, (God forbid) develop arthrits in your hands and find it painful and difficult to operate snap bolts, you may want to revist that statement. Or quit diving since you can't do it right. Choices get tough as we age.

Or if you're diving in 38 degree F water and can no longer feel your hands.

 

[eelnoraa]

I was talking about MY setup. Not yours. I don't care how you dive, I was talking about MY DIR setup and how I didn't think cave line and a bolt snap is a good way of securing, I was stating why I use MY retractor and how easy it would be for me to completely disconnect it at both points and reassemble. Maybe if you would actually read my post with some comprehension I wouldn't have to be explaining myself. The isolated last sentence clearly states "LONG STORY SHORT, RETRACTORS WORK BEST FOR ME".

I'm just going to attribute this to a lack of coffee on your part . Now, I'm going to go kiss my retractor

Calm down. My post was NOT in response to yous at all. Please read read #38 again. I don't think you and DaleC are the same person, right?

Anyway, we are not talking DIR here. I am sorry to make reference to the size of the knife using D*R. I probably should have said cut off steak knife with 2" blade instead.

 

[karlimmergut]

Personally, I think that retractors typically appeal to people who don't have the confidence, experience or diving frequency necessary to understand that using a simple bolt-snap is just as easy and convenient as a retractor, except for some small commitment necessary to develop a little muscle memory to access it as an ingrained, unconscious function.

Comparing apples to oranges. A bolt snap needs to be detached, creating the possibility that the item will be lost while the diver is manipulating it. This unless you use a segment of line to connect the bolt snap to the item, which in turn creates the risk of entanglement on its own, as the item dangles from the D ring. Retractor does not need to be detached to use. I use both bolt snaps and retractors. My camera has a permanent attachment point on a retractor, and every time it is not in use, it is additionally secured with a bolt snap. I would not want to manipulate the bolts snap on my camera and light in murky water or during a night dive, without knowing that they are safe. In the past I used a line on a bolt snap for everything, and I found it was awkward, floating around, catching on coral, etc. Retractors keep everything streamlined.

 

[DevonDiver]

There is nothing wrong with using retractors. When used with consoles,...

I think the very first post in this thread tends to cast doubt on that assumption.... it's why we're talking about the subject...

 

[flots am]

If you ever, (God forbid) develop arthrits in your hands and find it painful and difficult to operate snap bolts, you may want to revist that statement. Or quit diving since you can't do it right. Choices get tough as we age.

Summer isn't an issue (yet), but I have enough arthritis in my thumbs that a bolt-snap in 30-something degree water in the winter might just as well be a combination lock.

Maybe I should just quit diving also. OTOH, I haven't really found anything yet that actually requires a bolt snap, so maybe not.

My computer is on my wrist, my SMB and spool is in a pocket, and my line cutter is on a retractor. If the retractor jams (which has never happened to me), I'll disconnect whatever is on the end and get on with my life. All the retractors I've seen have quick disconnects at the end. And if the cable is in the way, EMT shears will take care of it in less than a second.

The OP had a training problem not an equipment problem.

flots.

 

[AfterDark]

Summer isn't an issue (yet), but I have enough arthritis in my thumbs that a bolt-snap in 30-something degree water in the winter might just as well be a combination lock.

Maybe I should just quit diving also. OTOH, I haven't really found anything yet that actually requires a bolt snap, so maybe not.

My computer is on my wrist, my SMB and spool is in a pocket, and my line cutter is on a retractor. If the retractor jams (which has never happened to me), I'll disconnect whatever is on the end and get on with my life. All the retractors I've seen have quick disconnects at the end. And if the cable is in the way, EMT shears will take care of it in less than a second.

The OP had a training problem not an equipment problem.

flots.

Don't quit! Technolgy keeps getting better and us old guys use it to find ways to keep diving! God will let me know when I'm done.

 

[DevonDiver]

Comparing apples to oranges. A bolt snap needs to be detached, creating the possibility that the item will be lost while the diver is manipulating it. This unless you use a segment of line to connect the bolt snap to the item, which in turn creates the risk of entanglement on its own, as the item dangles from the D ring. Retractor does not need to be detached to use.

I suppose that's fair - if you're a cack-handed, klutzy, Mr Bean-type diver.

In 20 years of diving, I've never 'dropped' anything. I unclip, utilise, when not using re-clip securely. Stuff that's in my hand... that I am using, I do not drop.
That's a crafty skill that I developed over many years on dry land - it works just as well in the water. It even works for me when very task-loaded... such as filming video during technical shipwreck penetrations, whilst working with guideline in low vis on sidemount... I'm assuming any reasonably coordinated diver could manage the function of "holding, not dropping" an item on an OW dive...

Of course... you cannot 'drop and lose' an SPG. So there's no valid reason for a bolt-snap there. With anything else, at most, out a wrist lanyard on. When you want to use something, open your pocket, fit the wrist lanyward, unclip the bolt-snap.... then use it without fear of mal-coordination costing you money.

One serious tip... for those genuinely worried about a 'klutz' moment is to simple wear a 'bracelet' of bungee cord. Unclip the item's boltsnap from storage, re-clip that bolt-snap to the bracelet, whilst you hold it. Now it's secure, easier to hold.... and you don't look like Elton John's Christmas Tree in the water...

I found a camera once... it had a lovely retractor on it. Didn't work out so foolproof for someone..... I threw the retractor away, put it on a bolt-snap... still using it 7 years later

Afterdark - that's a fair point. Arthritis could cause problems... first solution would be bigger bolt-snaps, I suppose. I've got a slightly disabled right hand from an old accident - it gets achy/tired quickly. I don't have problems with manipulation yet - but it's something I anticipate over the coming decades. To be honest, my primary considerations would be issues like LPI or OPV manipulation... followed by shut-downs etc..