IndigoBlue, I can't disagree about complacancy. I can't even exclude myself.
So Cal Diver Dies at Laguna Beach
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on my FIRST OW dive after certification I was ascending, on the anchor line (on a cattle boat) and the diver above me on the line "lost control" and came crashing into me from behind with no warning.
He blew my mask clear off my face; fortunately, I was able to grab at and get the strap so it didn't go to the bottom 60' below me.
I was not happy about it, but it wasn't a panic deal. I put it back on and cleared it, and learned that can actually swear through a regulator - one of Carlin's hyphenated words you can't say on TV came out of my reg's exhaust valve....
Fortunately, I was able to deal with it. And my "skills" were required to be done kneeling down, like most agencies.
I can see where it could be a problem for someone who hadn't been using a mask for basically their entire life. In my case I had; I used to swim in pools with a mask and fins when I was kid, so I was quite used to the idea of a mask, how it worked, and it wasn't a big deal to lose it.
He blew my mask clear off my face; fortunately, I was able to grab at and get the strap so it didn't go to the bottom 60' below me.
I was not happy about it, but it wasn't a panic deal. I put it back on and cleared it, and learned that can actually swear through a regulator - one of Carlin's hyphenated words you can't say on TV came out of my reg's exhaust valve....
Fortunately, I was able to deal with it. And my "skills" were required to be done kneeling down, like most agencies.
I can see where it could be a problem for someone who hadn't been using a mask for basically their entire life. In my case I had; I used to swim in pools with a mask and fins when I was kid, so I was quite used to the idea of a mask, how it worked, and it wasn't a big deal to lose it.
There aren't any absolutes and there aren't any garantees. You can dive like crap and do a thousand dives without a problem and it won't matter.
What we're talking about is the difference between being more skilled vs lee skilled...more prepared vs less.
Some people are more prone to panic. Some could do it without ant formal training at all.
Just watch people drive. How many just close their eyes and lock the brakes when things get ugly while other get busy and drive the vehicle.
Me, I'm one of those people who knows how I do with a skiding vehicle because I practice it. When it hapens for real I usually don't even spill my cofee. Some just hope it never happens.
What we're talking about is the difference between being more skilled vs lee skilled...more prepared vs less.
Some people are more prone to panic. Some could do it without ant formal training at all.
Just watch people drive. How many just close their eyes and lock the brakes when things get ugly while other get busy and drive the vehicle.
Me, I'm one of those people who knows how I do with a skiding vehicle because I practice it. When it hapens for real I usually don't even spill my cofee. Some just hope it never happens.
I believe in 10/10ths driving...
It has saved my azz a couple of times - literally.
I would certainly have gone down on the final dirt dive in a pine box at least twice behind the wheel of a car over the years if I had not practiced that kind of vehicle operation all the time - from my first years of driving - in places where there was little or nothing to hit (and definitely nothing of VALUE to hit) in a car that if it got banged a bit wasn't a big deal.
It has saved my azz a couple of times - literally.
I would certainly have gone down on the final dirt dive in a pine box at least twice behind the wheel of a car over the years if I had not practiced that kind of vehicle operation all the time - from my first years of driving - in places where there was little or nothing to hit (and definitely nothing of VALUE to hit) in a car that if it got banged a bit wasn't a big deal.
If most drivers don't practice emergency maneuvering types of skills and they drive EVERY DAY in effect hoping that an emergency condition doesn't occur, whats to cause them to practice skills for an activity that they do once a week/month/year?
Crap, next year we will see divers with cell phones
Crap, next year we will see divers with cell phones
Laurel and I have dove together dozens of times. She is taking this hard as all of us are. The death of this diver in our locality has effected us all - and with the death of any fellow diver the universal dive community always takes a shot too. There is no reason to attack or badger this man's dive buddy or this man's reputation - for goodness sakes he is lost to us all.
I do feel the desire to express some strong feelings I have on what little I know. First, let me say I do not have any details beyond those all of us know. But from what I've read and heard I must conclude "all things considered" this diver's weighting was THE fundamental failure. It is NOT, I repeat NOT, the intent of this post to harm the reputation of these divers. But you can be sure as a teacher I intend to use an imaginary scenario around the possibly imagined details leading up to this type of tragedy. As a scenario training opportunity in my classes I intend to detail a chain of failures that may lead to such tragic endings.
It's an opportunity to remind us all:
At the beginning of a dive if properly weighted, and with a fully deflated BC, on a normal breath of air you will float at eye level. It would therefore, require a very minimal amount of effort to drop ones head back and stay afloat.
All of us have wondered WHY no oral inflation? WHY was the BC not removed at the surface to address the equipment failure? WHY weren't the weights ditched? WHY was the regulator not in his mouth, or recovered and cleared? WHY? WHY? WHY? But most important of all WHY would a diver be overweighted to the extent they had no control over their decent?
But IF one's weighting is proper, normal breathing at the surface prevents you from sinking even if there is a minimum amount of air in the BC. If you are panicked and if you swallow water and are coughing and can't catch your breath and if you don't have your fins on and if your equipment has failed, you may very likely drown.
I do feel the desire to express some strong feelings I have on what little I know. First, let me say I do not have any details beyond those all of us know. But from what I've read and heard I must conclude "all things considered" this diver's weighting was THE fundamental failure. It is NOT, I repeat NOT, the intent of this post to harm the reputation of these divers. But you can be sure as a teacher I intend to use an imaginary scenario around the possibly imagined details leading up to this type of tragedy. As a scenario training opportunity in my classes I intend to detail a chain of failures that may lead to such tragic endings.
It's an opportunity to remind us all:
At the beginning of a dive if properly weighted, and with a fully deflated BC, on a normal breath of air you will float at eye level. It would therefore, require a very minimal amount of effort to drop ones head back and stay afloat.
All of us have wondered WHY no oral inflation? WHY was the BC not removed at the surface to address the equipment failure? WHY weren't the weights ditched? WHY was the regulator not in his mouth, or recovered and cleared? WHY? WHY? WHY? But most important of all WHY would a diver be overweighted to the extent they had no control over their decent?
But IF one's weighting is proper, normal breathing at the surface prevents you from sinking even if there is a minimum amount of air in the BC. If you are panicked and if you swallow water and are coughing and can't catch your breath and if you don't have your fins on and if your equipment has failed, you may very likely drown.
coldh2odiver
Registered
My deepest condolences for the family and fellow dive buddys.
Hey all,
Daryll's memorial this past Saturday was very nice. I want to thank everyone that expressed their wellwishes to myself, his friends, and most of all for his family and Steve, his buddy.
Steve gave out a statement at the memorial. By the sounds of his statement, it sounds like Daryll might have had a heart attack on the surface. After not being able to reconnect the BCD LP inflator, they decided to call the dive and were heading back into shore. They had been messing with the BCD for only 2-3 minutes. They had orally inflated the BCD. His weighting did allow him to have neutral buoyancy at the surface.
Daryll was not panicked at this point. His air was off. They had turned it off to reconnect the LPI to the BCD. Steve was a bit in front of Daryll as they snorkeled (still no fins on) back to shore. Suddenly, Daryll was on top on Steve, grabbing for his reg and pushing him under the water.
Steve struggled to get back up and establish his own buoyancy. He tried to calm Darryl, but couldnt. He was not sure what was going on. He attempted to put Darryls fins on, but Darryl was kicking and thrashing about. After 3-4 minutes of this, Steve thought about dumping Darryls weights, but couldnt. Darryl suddenly seemed to give up and started to sink. The thrashing about had released the air from his BC, and Darryl didnt seem to have any air in his lungs. Steve says as Darryl sank, no air bubbles escaped.
Steve did submerge to find Darryl, but between exhaustion and low vis, couldnt locate him. He resurfaced and called for help from the beach. 911 was called about 11:15 am. Rescue divers found Darryl about 55 minutes later. We are still awaiting coroners report.
It seems that a physical ailment may be the cause of this tragedy.
;-0
Daryll's memorial this past Saturday was very nice. I want to thank everyone that expressed their wellwishes to myself, his friends, and most of all for his family and Steve, his buddy.
Steve gave out a statement at the memorial. By the sounds of his statement, it sounds like Daryll might have had a heart attack on the surface. After not being able to reconnect the BCD LP inflator, they decided to call the dive and were heading back into shore. They had been messing with the BCD for only 2-3 minutes. They had orally inflated the BCD. His weighting did allow him to have neutral buoyancy at the surface.
Daryll was not panicked at this point. His air was off. They had turned it off to reconnect the LPI to the BCD. Steve was a bit in front of Daryll as they snorkeled (still no fins on) back to shore. Suddenly, Daryll was on top on Steve, grabbing for his reg and pushing him under the water.
Steve struggled to get back up and establish his own buoyancy. He tried to calm Darryl, but couldnt. He was not sure what was going on. He attempted to put Darryls fins on, but Darryl was kicking and thrashing about. After 3-4 minutes of this, Steve thought about dumping Darryls weights, but couldnt. Darryl suddenly seemed to give up and started to sink. The thrashing about had released the air from his BC, and Darryl didnt seem to have any air in his lungs. Steve says as Darryl sank, no air bubbles escaped.
Steve did submerge to find Darryl, but between exhaustion and low vis, couldnt locate him. He resurfaced and called for help from the beach. 911 was called about 11:15 am. Rescue divers found Darryl about 55 minutes later. We are still awaiting coroners report.
It seems that a physical ailment may be the cause of this tragedy.
;-0
Except that this is proper weighting for am empty tank. You need to be neutral at the surface (or close) with a near empty tank. With a full tank you're not going to float with no air in the bc.
Again, with a full tank you'll sink espeially with no fins on.
Being too heavy isn't good but you're always going to be heavy in the beginning of a dive by the weight of the gas you carry. In an AL 80 that's about 6 pounds.
Laurel,
It's good to have some more details. I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.
It's good to have some more details. I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.
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