Sleaze in Cozumel

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Dear JUDY,

My real point was that all the hoopla going on with Mau was NOT WARRANTED, as that is in many ways is normal behind the camera way things work in Cozumel--and that nobody should be shocked or pissed off. I was not trying to beat my own drum, or beat on anyone else, just felt a little up front honesty might be refreshing for this board. Sorry if I offended anyone.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers
 
I'd have to totally disagree with this :
It was a tremendous risk for him.

My feeling is that if someone's employees are setting off on their own in uncertain times, risking everything as they leave their current positions, then they are either delusional or there is something unsatisfactory about their current positions.

Because you said this

That employee left the company, formed his own company doing the same work. He had a pretty decent start when he left because most of his former clients went with him

That's typically what creates the bad blood between previous employers and employees. The employee 'cheats' by getting an unfair advantage at start up because of poaching clients, vendors, or proprietary knowledge.

Go out on your own and start from scratch and I'll respect your 'risk taking'. You're not a big risk taker when you have the advantages created by benefiting from your previous employers years of hard work. And I don't care how 'successful' any employee was at another company, how one sided, how taken advantage of, how much of a superstar, how much he thinks he's responsible for ALL of the success of his employer. Show me any employee who thinks that is who he is or was and you're showing me a new employer who will one day look back at how little he really knew or how stupid and naive he was in regard to his past employer and how much he thought he was a "Key" to his employers success. Nobody is irreplaceable. And there is a hell of a lot more to having a successful company then what any single employee thinks he contributes.
 
Go out on your own and start from scratch and I'll respect your 'risk taking'. You're not a big risk taker when you have the advantages created by benefiting from your previous employers years of hard work. And I don't care how 'successful' any employee was at another company, how one sided, how taken advantage of, how much of a superstar, how much he thinks he's responsible for ALL of the success of his employer. Show me any employee who thinks that is who he is or was and you're showing me a new employer who will one day look back at how little he really knew or how stupid and naive he was in regard to his past employer and how much he thought he was a "Key" to his employers success. Nobody is irreplaceable. And there is a hell of a lot more to having a successful company then what any single employee thinks he contributes.

I would say that an employer who sticks with your sage advice and makes sure all the employees know that they are easily replaceable will continue to have easily replaceable employees. Some employers want more.

My experience as an employer over the past decade has been close to the opposite of yours. I can't even estimate how many people I have interviewed and hired over those years, and I can't tell you how hard it was to find people who could really do the job we needed done. I can't tell you how very, very hard it was to replace the best employees when they left. I am right now trying to help a company that is quite possibly about to lose a huge contract because of the inferior work of one of their employees. They would replace her if they could, but they cannot find someone with the required credentials who could do any better.

Perhaps you only work with professions in which the employees do work that can be done by one of those people hanging out at intersections with cardboard signs, but there are actually professions where it is hard to find people with the requisite educational background, credentials, experience, and work skills. In my experience, when you are involved with such a profession and find a valued employee, you do all you can to make sure that employee feels valued enough to stay with you.

I would truly hate to work for anyone with your "all employees are worthless, blood-sucking parasites living off the hard work of their bosses" attitude. If I realized that, I would be one of the first to head for the exit at the first opportunity.
 
I'd have to totally disagree with this :

Because you said this



That's typically what creates the bad blood between previous employers and employees. The employee 'cheats' by getting an unfair advantage at start up because of poaching clients, vendors, or proprietary knowledge.

Go out on your own and start from scratch and I'll respect your 'risk taking'. You're not a big risk taker when you have the advantages created by benefiting from your previous employers years of hard work. And I don't care how 'successful' any employee was at another company, how one sided, how taken advantage of, how much of a superstar, how much he thinks he's responsible for ALL of the success of his employer. Show me any employee who thinks that is who he is or was and you're showing me a new employer who will one day look back at how little he really knew or how stupid and naive he was in regard to his past employer and how much he thought he was a "Key" to his employers success. Nobody is irreplaceable. And there is a hell of a lot more to having a successful company then what any single employee thinks he contributes.
Ironically, I spent much of the morning preparing course materials for a graduate school course I will be team teaching this semester. The topic of part is the hiring, training, and evaluation of effective employees. Thanks for your comments! I assure you they are going to be part of that course now!
 
That's typically what creates the bad blood between previous employers and employees. The employee 'cheats' by getting an unfair advantage at start up because of poaching clients, vendors, or proprietary knowledge.
In my experience (not dive or Cozumel related), a lot of the bad blood comes from some employers' ego : some people have trouble letting go and admitting that one of "their people" has a life and desires of their own that they want to pursue.
The "poaching clients" thing is a fine line, IMO : let's say I work as a chef in your favorite restaurant and decide to quit and open my own place. We meet by chance in the street : should I not tell you I'm a new restaurant owner because it would be "unfair" to my former boss ? Should I hide my identity on my own website and do no advertizement ? FWIW, every big chef boasts on their venue's website the prestigious cuisines where they have worked and improved their craft.


Go out on your own and start from scratch and I'll respect your 'risk taking'. You're not a big risk taker when you have the advantages created by benefiting from your previous employers years of hard work. And I don't care how 'successful' any employee was at another company, how one sided, how taken advantage of, how much of a superstar, how much he thinks he's responsible for ALL of the success of his employer. Show me any employee who thinks that is who he is or was and you're showing me a new employer who will one day look back at how little he really knew or how stupid and naive he was in regard to his past employer and how much he thought he was a "Key" to his employers success. Nobody is irreplaceable. And there is a hell of a lot more to having a successful company then what any single employee thinks he contributes.
I would NOT dive with a company that REALLY started from scratch, unless they had been around for over a decade, because that would mean they would have NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever regarding local diving conditions, written and unwritten rules, organization…

Employees successfully creating their own business benefit from THEIR OWN years of hard work for somebody else. Unfortunately (especially here in France where it's pretty hard to fire people), some employees will spend 30+ years working at a company and not be any better at their job than when they first started… (and possibly worse…) These people are not likely to be the ones leaving to create their own venture, they'll just sit on theirs a$$es till retirement (when they're not on strike or complaining about their evil boss, but I disgress).

The ones who strive at their work never stop learning. They're offered more responsabilities, different positions… After a while, they reach a ceiling. Either because they are at the top of their competence (the-really-good-worker-turned-terrible-manager that I'm sure you've met at least once in your working life), or because the company can no longer give them the perks (be them $$$, responsabilities, learning opportunities, personal freedom…) that they are craving. Those people are even harder for an employer to replace than the others because of their knowledge, experience, skills and dedication. And if they were in contact with clients, it is likely that some will follow them in their new venture (whether it's an already existing competitor or a new business). Because they EXCELL at what they do.

I agree with what BoulderJohn wrote. Every employee is key in the success of a company (otherwise he is just useless cost). Some more than others. I've never felt irrepleceable in the sense that I knew the company existed before they hired me and would still exist long after I was gone, but I've never belittled any of my jobs to the point of thinking that the first person coming through the door could do it.

I do however agree with you that "there is a hell of a lot more to having a successful company then what any single employee thinks he contributes". It's a team effort.
 
Dear Dave,

We have never had the pleasure to meet, we have never talked to each other, nordid we ever work together.
I am to be honest appalled by your post.
You do not know us, our service, nor our past, all the clients we have we knowfor years and by word to mouth, not that I think that I need to defend myselfhere on this board for our hard work.


If there isanything that bothers you by our existence I would be happy to meet you inperson and explain you our business model.

I wish you and your Dive Op a very fruitful 2012 and I am confident that thereare sufficient divers who will dive with your op and with ours and the manyprofessionals ones we have in Cozumel.

 
Weird how people read the post differently.

I took the post to say his OP Aldora started much like those others. I didn't read as insulting to those named. Perhaps saying right after mentioning the crud flying around SM and OD is no unusual was not the best choice as it lead into the other, but really I didn't take is as anything negative. I read it to say most OP start from people who are experienced in Coz and for a reason go out on their own. Then he said time will tell who survives which doesn't seem to be controversial.
 
Weird how people read the post differently.

I took the post to say his OP Aldora started much like those others. I didn't read as insulting to those named. Perhaps saying right after mentioning the crud flying around SM and OD is no unusual was not the best choice as it lead into the other, but really I didn't take is as anything negative. I read it to say most OP start from people who are experienced in Coz and for a reason go out on their own. Then he said time will tell who survives which doesn't seem to be controversial.

Let´s hope you are right and it is just the fact that English is not our first language!
 
Well, he seemed to have a couple thoughts run together. The first part seemed to say crap goes on between shops. The second part seemed to say any of the new ops could be the next Aldora. (Then you can come on SB and say whatever you think... :soapbox:)
 
I would say that an employer who sticks with your sage advice and makes sure all the employees know that they are easily replaceable will continue to have easily replaceable employees. Some employers want more.

My experience as an employer over the past decade has been close to the opposite of yours. I can't even estimate how many people I have interviewed and hired over those years, and I can't tell you how hard it was to find people who could really do the job we needed done. I can't tell you how very, very hard it was to replace the best employees when they left. I am right now trying to help a company that is quite possibly about to lose a huge contract because of the inferior work of one of their employees. They would replace her if they could, but they cannot find someone with the required credentials who could do any better.

Perhaps you only work with professions in which the employees do work that can be done by one of those people hanging out at intersections with cardboard signs, but there are actually professions where it is hard to find people with the requisite educational background, credentials, experience, and work skills. In my experience, when you are involved with such a profession and find a valued employee, you do all you can to make sure that employee feels valued enough to stay with you.

I would truly hate to work for anyone with your "all employees are worthless, blood-sucking parasites living off the hard work of their bosses" attitude. If I realized that, I would be one of the first to head for the exit at the first opportunity.

All businesses have turn-over; employee turn-over is a part of any businesses life. Even a CEO will leave and can be replaced. The norm and the objective is not for an employee to leave a business and it automatically goes BK and 100 other employees have to get laid off. As said even a CEO can leave a business and it should be able to go on. Everyone is replaceable in a viable business.

Did your friends departure drive his former employer out of business?

If so who would be the better employer, the one who allowed one employee's leaving to cause the rest of the employees to lose their jobs and put their families in jeopardy, or an employer whose business only suffered a temporary setback, but was run well enough that the position was easily filled and no one else's lively hood at the company was put in danger? You'd say the latter employer was a blood sucker because he ran a business that could survive?

Regardless, I don't know where you got all the blood sucking talk from or anything about making sure all employees know they are easily replaceable garbage. I never said anything of the sort, and that's small minded in my opinion if that's the way you have to think of things. The alternative is you can have a well run business, with respect all around, run it in a way that no one person leaving destroys the business and puts everyone else and their families in danger.

Sorry you got upset that I don't think your friend was a big risk taker for starting his business by doing so with a safety net of guaranteed income by taking his employers customer base with him. I never said he was the devil, only that I don't agree with your interpretation of his 'risks'. Starting a business with X-amount of guaranteed sales as soon as you open your doors is a pretty comfortable situation in my opinion, compared with the alternative.

Sorry it got you so upset and required you to put words in my mouth. You jumped to a ton of conclusions based on little information. Maybe that's what you do when somebody politely disagrees with you?
 

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