Sleaze in Cozumel

[annlaur]

A former employee of a business finding private investors to open his own company (and therefore keep the profit generated by his work vs. working for somebody else) is not sleazy, it's one of the basic rules of capitalism.
DMs and instructors being in contact with the customers (and more often than not the main contact), it is perfectly understandable that some clients will switch dive ops and elect to dive with the DM or instructor's new venture. Again, not stealing, basic business relationships.
You see that happen all the time in every small business industry, the difference here IMO is that Cozumel is a small island and dive business is probably more conducive than others to creating informal relationships between professionals and customers.
I mean, if I'm pis**d one day at my boss or coworker, I can b*tch about it to someone I trust at the coffee machine and have good faith that it will stay private. However, there is no coffee machine on most dive boats and vacationing customers may not be the most trustful ears, so whenever a DM (or captain or dive op owner&#8230 shares private info about a business, it might soon lead to gossip and be taken out of proportion.
I've heard a number of things about different dive ops while staying on the island, most of it coming from people "venting" (about their boss or competitor or colleague or client&#8230 because they had a bad day. None of it worth taking seriously… even less broadcasting on the internet : now THAT would be SLEAZY.

 

[DandyDon]

If there is room on the Cozumel forums for yet another ridiculous thread about restaurants in Cozumel creating gastronomic divinity by slapping together $1.50 worth of beans and rice and a tortilla patty on a plate, there is certainly room for one thread about the reality of the dive business there.

Or another Dive Op recommendation request with dozens of cheerleading* posts offering no reasons for their suggestions.
* Why does google spelling not think that is a word? :silly:

Coz is an intense tourist destination and I expect a hustle at any turn, but I really get what I contract and pay for generally. Very few bad experiences and arguing with taxi drivers can be fun if you work at it.

What the locals do to each other is really their business.

 

[boulderjohn]

People have correctly said that this is the sort of thing that happens in small businesses everywhere. Let me give an example from an unrelated business that may illustrate a point.

The business of which I speak was a a nation-wide U.S. company with several regional centers. At one center, their top employee was creating as much business/income as all other 13 combined. That employee left the company, formed his own company doing the same work. He had a pretty decent start when he left because most of his former clients went with him

Why would he do such a thing? It was a tremendous risk for him. (I know him well.) He had s secure job with the old company, and he formed the new one in the depths of the recession, which hit his industry particularly hard. He had some very tough times for a while because he did not have the base capital he truly needed for the move. After a period of real anxiety, he is very successful now--he has much eliminated his old company, with its much vaster resources, from the region on which he focuses. In fact the regional center in which he worked has closed. He is making much more money than he was before while creating about the same amount of business.

Why did he do it? Because the old company's management was, frankly, screwing him over. He did not believe his compensation came even close to matching his worth to the company and the amount of effort he was making to achieve his success. He believed the CEO and other top executives were raking in huge salaries based on the success of people like him without providing any real benefit of their own. The CEO was at times abusive in his treatment of employees, demanding more work and more output in the style of the famed Ebeneezer Scrooge.

My feeling is that if someone's employees are setting off on their own in uncertain times, risking everything as they leave their current positions, then they are either delusional or there is something unsatisfactory about their current positions.

 

[scubafanatic]

I dont really understand why anybody especially a dive shop owner would add to the already nasty stuff already circulating here and elsewhere on the net. Frankly I don't care to hear all the dirt. FWIW, I do not mind when the crew of the dive boat I'm on works for their tips, it's their job.

I suspect the point Dave was making was that the fly-by-night dive ops don't pay their DM's a regular salary, so they offload that business cost and let the DM's be completely commission based.

 

[scubafanatic]

The antics Dave described in his post aren't unique to Cozumel. It's a fact of life in the business world where there is brisk competition. What he has done with his post, IMO, is to break the unwritten rule of the Cozumel forum and actually be candid about things.

speak no evil/see no evil/hear no evil has been standard operating procedure here for a LONG time...and woe to anyone who dares criticize the party line!

 

[scubafanatic]

Or another Dive Op recommendation request with dozens of cheerleading* posts offering no reasons for their suggestions.
* Why does google spelling not think that is a word? :silly:

Coz is an intense tourist destination and I expect a hustle at any turn, but I really get what I contract and pay for generally. Very few bad experiences and arguing with taxi drivers can be fun if you work at it.

What the locals do to each other is really their business.

Don, I like an insight into the ethics of any business with whom I do (or might do) business, anyone who wants to just 'don't worry, be happy!' they probably should change the channel and not be clicking to read a thread whose first word is 'Sleazy!"

 

[cvchief]

Don, I like an insight into the ethics of any business with whom I do (or might do) business, anyone who wants to just 'don't worry, be happy!' they probably should change the channel and not be clicking to read a thread whose first word is 'Sleazy!"

I actually thought from the thread title it was going to be a map of the *best* cantinas in the hood, but sadly this isn't that thread......

 

[judydivescoz]

I suspect the point Dave was making was that the fly-by-night dive ops don't pay their DM's a regular salary, so they offload that business cost and let the DM's be completely commission based.

Not to argue but that was not the way I read it. The name of the thread "Sleaze in Cozumel" and the reference to the ongoing dispute between Scuba Mau and Opals Dream sounds to me like an additional and inappropriate stirring of the pot in a situation that is none of anyone's business.
I have never found that the dive ops I have dove with to be cut throat and looking to steal from each other. My favorite op has referred me to other similar ops when she could not take me diving. None of them ever tried to get me to jump ship. In fact, one of the other dive shop owners has become a friend and we have dinner at least once every trip....I don't even have to buy her dinner, we split the tab most times. My favorite shop dive owner is also has become a friend, we have traveled together, I have been a guest in her home and we take turns buying dinner. We have become friends and I did not have to buy her a dive boat. Maybe I am naive or just plain lucky but the Cozumel that Dave goes on to write about is not the experience I have had over the past 10 years. I am one lucky woman.

 

[annlaur]

People have correctly said that this is the sort of thing that happens in small businesses everywhere. Let me give an example from an unrelated business that may illustrate a point.

The business of which I speak was a a nation-wide U.S. company with several regional centers. At one center, their top employee was creating as much business/income as all other 13 combined. That employee left the company, formed his own company doing the same work. He had a pretty decent start when he left because most of his former clients went with him

Why would he do such a thing? It was a tremendous risk for him. (I know him well.) He had s secure job with the old company, and he formed the new one in the depths of the recession, which hit his industry particularly hard. He had some very tough times for a while because he did not have the base capital he truly needed for the move. After a period of real anxiety, he is very successful now--he has much eliminated his old company, with its much vaster resources, from the region on which he focuses. In fact the regional center in which he worked has closed. He is making much more money than he was before while creating about the same amount of business.

Why did he do it? Because the old company's management was, frankly, screwing him over. He did not believe his compensation came even close to matching his worth to the company and the amount of effort he was making to achieve his success. He believed the CEO and other top executives were raking in huge salaries based on the success of people like him without providing any real benefit of their own. The CEO was at times abusive in his treatment of employees, demanding more work and more output in the style of the famed Ebeneezer Scrooge.

My feeling is that if someone's employees are setting off on their own in uncertain times, risking everything as they leave their current positions, then they are either delusional or there is something unsatisfactory about their current positions.

Good point, but there are many other reasons for creating one's own business than fleeing abusive, Scrooge-like CEOs. Making more $$$, wanting to choose the people you work with, fulfilling a dream, setting up your own rules…
It's only natural that experienced professionals in any field would choose to leave a comfortable (but sometimes frustrating and boring) employee position in order to go to the "next level" where they can be their own boss and learn new skills and a new aspect of their job.

 

[cruiser]

So who do you think will win the Presidential election down yonder, and will Calderón still come dive after he retires? Texas Keeps Close Eye on Mexico's Presidential Race — Immigration | The Texas Tribune

After Calderon retires, he'll have more time to dive and hopefully he'll choose Cozumel.