Skills For Carrying And Using A Pony

[Edward3c]

That is a skill I do plan to cultivate at some point when I am working with the right people. There seem to be widely divergent facts out there about buddy breathing and the reasons for it being dropped from the training curriculum. I don't know who to believe, but the value of being able to do it, in a buddy pair who train together and have the right mindset, is clear.
...

Hi 2airishuman,

One of the reasons buddy breathing was dropped from training was a better, less stressful alternative became available. The octopus regulator. Every time a regulator is flooded there is a change of it failing in some way. Because an OOG diver would only have to clear a regulator once the probability of its failure is dramatically reduced to the buddy breathing scenario. Additionally, the casualty will be more relaxed knowing they don't have to give up the air supply.

If you decide to learn this antiquated skill purely for the hell of it, fine. But if you're thinking of ever suggesting its use in a OOG situation, bear in mind the liability your opening up by using a technique not formally taught by any agency.

 

[redacted]

Every time a regulator is flooded there is a change of it failing in some way. Because an OOG diver would only have to clear a regulator once the probability of its failure is dramatically reduced to the buddy breathing scenario.

A very very small chance. Little different than the chance your reg may fail after the next breath. But buddy breathing is not a simple skill and does create added opportunity for human error.

 

[2airishuman]

Hi 2airishuman,

One of the reasons buddy breathing was dropped from training was a better, less stressful alternative became available. The octopus regulator. Every time a regulator is flooded there is a change of it failing in some way. Because an OOG diver would only have to clear a regulator once the probability of its failure is dramatically reduced to the buddy breathing scenario. Additionally, the casualty will be more relaxed knowing they don't have to give up the air supply.

I'll add that to the list. So far, I have:

1. Because studies have shown that unless a particular buddy pair has practiced buddy breathing together on at least n different ascents in the last year, the chances of them both being able to survive a buddy breathing ascent are unacceptably low. (where n is something like 5 or 8 or 11 or some other number too high to be achievable)
2. Because students were being scared away from open water classes for fear of contracting herpes (or AIDS).
3. It's an equipment solution to a skills problem, the old ways were better and safer
4. (and now...) Because regs sometimes fail when they flood, and with buddy breathing, well, you flood the reg at every exchange

If you decide to learn this antiquated skill purely for the hell of it, fine. But if you're thinking of ever suggesting its use in a OOG situation, bear in mind the liability your opening up by using a technique not formally taught by any agency.

I decided a while ago that I'm not going to do any dives without a bungeed secondary on back gas and a primary on a long hose.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

For anyone that has practiced buddy breathing - this is a simple skill and next to zero chance of a regulator failure.

You must be comfortable under water with your skills and your confidence - when I was taught this was standard procedure back in 1978.
You need to wait your turn at breathing from the reg - the first time you try this for real it does feel like along time between breaths - just relax.
If you decide to panic - with or without buddy breathing - you are going to get hurt.
I have taught my son this procedure - he has about 75 dives and he did not have a single issue with this drill. In my opinion it helps build confidence - YMMV.
This procedure does not need you to purge the regulator - you are not causing it any harm and if your regulator fails it is not because of this procedure.

I have practiced and I have used this for real in Martinique at 80 feet down. It worked flawlessly and I was able to bring an OOG person to the DM without a hitch.
This is not magic. If you dive with me - I dive with a single regulator sometimes with my pony sometimes if it is shallow enough no pony. If you come to me OOG - you best know the drill.

Hi 2airishuman,

One of the reasons buddy breathing was dropped from training was a better, less stressful alternative became available. The octopus regulator. Every time a regulator is flooded there is a change of it failing in some way. Because an OOG diver would only have to clear a regulator once the probability of its failure is dramatically reduced to the buddy breathing scenario. Additionally, the casualty will be more relaxed knowing they don't have to give up the air supply.

If you decide to learn this antiquated skill purely for the hell of it, fine. But if you're thinking of ever suggesting its use in a OOG situation, bear in mind the liability your opening up by using a technique not formally taught by any agency.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

1. (and now...) Because regs sometimes fail when they flood, and with buddy breathing, well, you flood the reg at every exchange

Just curious if you use a pony or octo. If you do what is the difference in flooding the reg? None that I know of - are you concerned about your pony or octo?
It does not make any sense...

 

[markmud]

Hi OP,

I use a back mounted pony most of the time. It is mounted upside down. The valve is off while I am diving.

I sling a pony on some dives. The valve is off.

Having the valve on for immediate use points to a training and conditioning failure. If you practice opening your pony valve and grabbing the correct reg, it becomes second nature. Figure out your set-up and never deviate that set-up. Practice, practice, and practice.

Practice manually inflating your BC while you are using your redundant system. If your primary system has failed, your inflator won't work.

Good luck,
markm

 

[2airishuman]

I have practiced and I have used this for real in Martinique at 80 feet down. It worked flawlessly and I was able to bring an OOG person to the DM without a hitch.
This is not magic. If you dive with me - I dive with a single regulator sometimes with my pony sometimes if it is shallow enough no pony. If you come to me OOG - you best know the drill.

I've never actually practiced it let alone taught it, but my perception is that the extent to which it is a big deal probably varies from one person to the next. Some people are cool. Some people have a stronger panic reaction that has to be overcome with training and discipline. Some people have a panic reaction that they can't reliably control.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Having the valve on for immediate use points to a training and conditioning failure.

No it doesn't. It points to a preference. I hope you at pressurize your reg before you go into the water.

 

[markmud]

No it doesn't. It points to a preference. I hope you at pressurize your reg before you go into the water.

Hi wetb4...

I respect your opinion and I am glad that you can dive your way. I disagree with your opinion and my point stands without amendment.

As a newly minted bottom level tec diver*, we were taught to close the valves on deco, stage, and pony bottles. The only valves that are open are valves on the twinset manifold. The protocol that I use is taught.

For my solo cert it was optional. But, the instructor explained the risks of having valves open on ponies.

However, I did not intend to get in the weeds regarding my previous post and official training. My point was supposed to be about personal training. If you fear having the valve closed on your pony, start training yourself. Condition yourself to having closed pony bottle valves and before you know it, opening a pony will become second nature.

The best way to ensure that your pony has breathing gas in it when you need it, is to have the valve closed when not in use.

Yes, I pressurize my regs before jumping in the water.

*: Tec 40 is like training wheels on a kid's first bike--it is comprehensive and very good, but it is the intro course for tec divers.

thanks,
markm

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Hi wetb4...

I respect your opinion and I am glad that you can dive your way. I disagree with your opinion and my point stands without amendment.

As a newly minted bottom level tec diver*, we were taught to close the valves on deco, stage, and pony bottles. The only valves that are open are valves on the twinset manifold. The protocol that I use is taught.

For my solo cert it was optional. But, the instructor explained the risks of having valves open on ponies.

However, I did not intend to get in the weeds regarding my previous post and official training. My point was supposed to be about personal training. If you fear having the valve closed on your pony, start training yourself. Condition yourself to having closed pony bottle valves and before you know it, opening a pony will become second nature.

The best way to ensure that your pony has breathing gas in it when you need it, is to have the valve closed when not in use.

Yes, I pressurize my regs before jumping in the water.

*: Tec 40 is like training wheels on a kid's first bike--it is comprehensive and very good, but it is the intro course for tec divers.

thanks,
markm

Mark,

You make assumptions that opening and closing valves in not second nature. You make assumptions about me now knowing about Tec 40, as I'm in the process of becoming an instructor for that course. Please do not be so provocative by using word like "fear". I know that this is ScubaBoard, and people get into all sorts of arguments, slinging insults back and forth. I'm trying to choose my words to not be snarky, as how I respond reflects as me as a person and an instructor. Hopefully I live up to that.

I chose this way recreationally after taking a PADI deep course with an instructor who is also a GUE instructor.

Now when it comes to tec diving, yes, you pressurize your valves on your stage/deco bottles. If you are diving recreationally with a pony bottle (yes I know you can take Tec 40 with a pony bottle), have your gear properly serviced, the risk of it leaking is so incredibly small. Remember you were trained to do bubble checks, right? Which I which recreational divers should be trained to do.

Now if you are diving doubles, or sidemount, do you have a backmounted pony bottle? No.

So keep things in perspective on what sort of diving we are talking about.

Kosta