Should Nitrox Certification require dives....

[Charlie99]

Are you kidding?
1. Basic nitrox is just that a basic, usually 1 day course.
2. Maximum fo2 is usually 40% (or 50% through ANDI)
3. Maxmimum exposure is usually 1.45
4. Rescuing a convulsing diver is a very risky and difficult maneuver well beyond the scope of basic nitrox
5. How many divers do you know who have actually toxed? It is not a very common occurance why focus on something as rare as tox. The couse should be more about prevention.

I mostly agree with you. My post was a reply (and challenge) to an instructor that said that he always requires two dives for his nitrox class, and posted about how actual dives were really important.

IMO, oxtox related drills are the only nitrox-specific reasons for having dives in a nitrox class. It's debateable as to whether or not those drills are appropriate or worth doing in a recreational dive setting. Therefore I conclude that requiring dives as part of a nitrox cert is of very marginal value.

Charlie

 

[KidK9]

I dont think the dives are necessary. Same diving, different gas in my opinion. No deco, so why train (in water) on something that is exactly the same. Classroom, in my opinion is the only training necessary.

 

[wedivebc]

I mostly agree with you. My post was a reply (and challenge) to an instructor that said that he always requires two dives for his nitrox class, and posted about how actual dives were really important.

IMO, oxtox related drills are the only nitrox-specific reasons for having dives in a nitrox class. It's debateable as to whether or not those drills are appropriate or worth doing in a recreational dive setting. Therefore I conclude that requiring dives as part of a nitrox cert is of very marginal value.

Charlie

OK flame thrower away
As far as in water skills you are correct but the sequence of skills starting at the dive planning level and continuing to the dive shop to retrieve/analyze/sign for mix. Then all the preparation leading up to the moment the student splashes in the water including any contingencies such as were mentioned in an earlier post.
Now if you think I am going to go all that way with my students and not get wet, that would be crazy.
The training continues at the post dive brief when the student logs the dive and discusses the 'nitrox experience'.
So yes there is actually no in-water requirement for an instructor but all the pre and post dive stuff should be done in practice and not in theory. If I lived 1000 miles from the ocean I might think differently

 

[zboss]

no - I see no reason for it. As a matter of fact I bet we would see a couple of store balk at the idea of doing the "nitrox openwater" using air instead... I wonder what they would say about losing $20 a student.

The idea of requiring dives for nitrox is stupid and I see no use for it. ok - MAYBE it elevates some tension, after all it's drilled into you that you will tox as soon as you hit the water.

- z

 

[Hyper-limits]

I'm also on the side that it's not required, but they is nothing wrong for an instructor to take his students out on a dive. If he charge twice as much for the course because there is a couple a dives that would be silly. The theory can be done in the forenoon and a nice Nitrox dive in the afternoon sound good to me. Nice but not required that for sure.

 

[LeFlaneur]

I just completed an SDI basic Nitrox class that did not include dives. I don't feel short changed... unless maybe:
Dive 1 - practice not going below 132 feet
Dive 2 - practice not going below 113 feet

But seriously, it seems to me it's really about proper planning rather than diving procedures. And it could be argued that requiring dives for a nitrox cert is just a way to jack up the price.

 

[sweatfrog]

Ha, Ha, Ha, you guys crack me up. You complain about not getting enough dives in classes and the lack of skills that divers have. Then you want to get a card to allow you to dive longer, but you don't want to dive?

The one agency that makes sense out of this conundrum is NAUI. They have one color cert card if you do the dives and another color if you don't.

I thought this sport is about getting out there and diving, not complaining about it, but different strokes I guess!!!!

 

[String]

Ha, Ha, Ha, you guys crack me up. You complain about not getting enough dives in classes and the lack of skills that divers have. Then you want to get a card to allow you to dive longer, but you don't want to dive?

So try to justify why youd NEED a dive for *basic* nitrox? What is different about breathing air that requires a dive? Why is it so essential ?
How would a dive that is no different to any other dive on air suddenly improve a divers skill magically by breathing a new case?

Buoyancy the same, dive planning the same (other than MOD but even air dives have an MOD and dive plan should have a max depth so that cancels out). Breathing through a reg is the same, equipment is the same. All that differs is the no stop time.

Lets hear good reasons why you think a dive would help.

 

[Cobra852]

Absolutely - you can introduce those scenarios in the classroom. And the outcome is that students might have more awareness and "classroom knowledge", but not a lick of new skill. We see it all the time with folks who ace the test, but never learned to apply the knoledge. The dives are what cement the learning by taking the classroom knowledge and giving it real life application. Transfer from the classroom to application is not automatic, and is a much higher order level of knowledge and skill.

What? No complications on the dives? What a missed opportunity if we don't "create" complications so that students have to problem solve! We've enjoyed many a beautiful dive when mid-way thru the surface interval I posed one of those ominous "what if" questions that required students to apply all that classroom knowledge to the here-and-now.

Re: the other skills... its more than just being nice, and not at all a function of "requirements." Its an absolute opportunity to shape divers' skill and knowledge. We can always teach less, but if we really want to have an impact on divers' skills, knowledge and judgement, why would we?

Having read your posts sir you are an excellent instructor... However, that being noted many of the instructor's I have met are interested only in the basic's and the fees associated with such making the added nitrox dives with instructor only a path to more revenue for the instructor.

 

[Cobra852]

Ha, Ha, Ha, you guys crack me up. You complain about not getting enough dives in classes and the lack of skills that divers have. Then you want to get a card to allow you to dive longer, but you don't want to dive?

The one agency that makes sense out of this conundrum is NAUI. They have one color cert card if you do the dives and another color if you don't.

I thought this sport is about getting out there and diving, not complaining about it, but different strokes I guess!!!!

The sport is about getting out there and diving... However, why should I pay more to dive when its not necessary? ie: $150+ to have an instructor dive with me only so I get a signature for a nitrox c card?

Take the same money and I can do 2+ more dives without the baby sitter.

As has been noted if the instructor takes it past the minimal with additional skills being enhanced or additional problems thrown at the student it is worth it. If this is in fact the case make it an option and an oportunity for the instructor to sell his ability to teach rather then just selling his signature.