Should Nitrox Certification require dives....

[Walter]

EAD would enable you to use air tables. You, of course, would also have to figure MOD.

 

[wedivebc]

Good point, and absolutely agreed.

I'm glad I didn't have to dive with my Nitrox instructor. He freely admitted that he didn't know anything about how Nitrox was actually created, just that he could get it in his tanks. He also clearly had no idea what oxygen toxicity actually was. I'm glad I didn't have to get into the water with him..

Well, I was just about to argue with you about this comment but after re-checking the TDI standards it turns out nitrox manufacturing is not a required subject on the nitrox course.
I have to admit I don't understand the mechanics of ox toxicity and I don't know anyone who does. Could you please enlighten me?

 

[jonnythan]

I have to admit I don't understand the mechanics of ox toxicity and I don't know anyone who does. Could you please enlighten me?

Well, I know it doesn't happen on the surface, and treatment isn't a chamber ride

 

[TCDiver1]

I like the idea of having to dive with my students before i hand them any diving c-card. Especially if i'm not familiar with their dive skill level.

If for example they can't maintain their position in the water column, without yo-yo'g all over the place, they ain't getting an EAN card from me no matter how many written tests they pass.

Some things can't be learned in a classroom.

 

[wedivebc]

Well, I know it doesn't happen on the surface, and treatment isn't a chamber ride

Having been a TDI nitrox instructor I have to say I am shocked at these comments. I am sure your instructor was a rare exception and I would hope that instructor rating are usually a little more stringent than what you described.
Since I was already a PADI and ANDI instructor I did a crossover to TDI without too much fuss. I have to say I have a pretty good idea how nitrox is made and I am sure a CNS hit is not treated in the chamber. You do know that whole body toxicity can happen on the surface though right?

 

[jonnythan]

Having been a TDI nitrox instructor I have to say I am shocked at these comments. I am sure your instructor was a rare exception and I would hope that instructor rating are usually a little more stringent than what you described.
Since I was already a PADI and ANDI instructor I did a crossover to TDI without too much fuss. I have to say I have a pretty good idea how nitrox is made and I am sure a CNS hit is not treated in the chamber. You do know that whole body toxicity can happen on the surface though right?

Yes.. but trust me, it was clear that this instructor had no idea what he was talking about.

 

[Charlie99]

I’m one of those old mossbacks who think its reasonable to include dives in a nitrox class. ........... They should be helping people master new skills and knowledge related to nitrox, not just gain a general awareness of it. What better opportunity exists for teaching knowledge, good skills, habits, and judgments than by including training dives in the course? So ask your potential instructor what you’ll learn on nitrox training dives. If your instructor says its just a dive, find an instructor who actually has something to teach! But don’t skip the dives.

Do you teach, demonstrate and practice oxygen toxicity rescue techniques on your nitrox class dives?

Those are nitrox related dive skills that should be practiced in-water.

If you aren't going to do oxtox drills, then the dives are a waste of time and unecessary.

Charlie Allen

 

[String]

For basic nitrox as back gas only i really cant see the need for dives. All of it is theory - you've already established they can breathe through a reg. If their buoyancy isnt good enough to not drop below MOD 1 or 2 nitrox dives with an instructor isnt going to sort that out. All the planning scenarios can be done in the class room, after that the student has to take responsibility. If they cant cope with that and need an instructor the first time theres nothing to assumr they'll cope the second time or thereafter without.
Basic nitrox is quite literally very basic simple stuff. If its a planned deco, rich mix for deco etc then yes theres a need for dives but on its basic level i really cant see the need. About the only practical i can think of are examing a mix and a few "what if" scenarios on paper.

 

[Kriterian]

Example: You've prepared a mix for an 85' dive. The dive boat gets to the site and there are two fishing boats tied in. Captain of the dive op scratches that site, and moves to a deeper wreck with a bottom of 135', but with the deck at 105’, the wheelhouse at 95' and some light structure starting at 60’. Experienced nitrox divers see the issues and opportunities right away for this dive, but would the person who just completed her on-line or classroom-only recognition class be fully prepared to adjust the dive plan?

My dive shop's nitrox course had the dives as optional, and I agree with that method.

The thing I don't understand about your exampe is, how exactly is doing two checkout dives in a quarry or lake going to make that student understand your example better? It wouldn't at all, only understanding the information will help with that example.

 

[wedivebc]

Do you teach, demonstrate and practice oxygen toxicity rescue techniques on your nitrox class dives?

Those are nitrox related dive skills that should be practiced in-water.

If you aren't going to do oxtox drills, then the dives are a waste of time and unecessary.

Charlie Allen

Are you kidding?
1. Basic nitrox is just that a basic, usually 1 day course.
2. Maximum fo2 is usually 40% (or 50% through ANDI)
3. Maxmimum exposure is usually 1.45
4. Rescuing a convulsing diver is a very risky and difficult maneuver well beyond the scope of basic nitrox
5. How many divers do you know who have actually toxed? It is not a very common occurance why focus on something as rare as tox. The couse should be more about prevention.