Should diving agencies have stricter requirements for certification and check?

[Progen]

Ok, this is coming from someone who has more than a passing interest in animals and that includes marine life so just label me as the loudmouthed newbie and move on if your interest doesn't lie there.

Just about all of us know that there's big money only if a business gets a steady flow of paying customers and diving agencies are no different but we also know that the majority of divers worldwide will only dive once or twice a year or every few years and so every new trip is an 'unguided refresher course' which means the skill level doesn't improve with most actually going downhill as they struggle to recall what they've learnt or were supposed to be able to do to be certified.

I've seen a lot of supposedly experienced divers unable to control themselves and caused untold damage to the marine environment with others relying on pointers to stop or anchor themselves even when there's no current. The term 'buddy check' has become as common as breathing and taken for granted that way too with many not bothering to carry it out or consider it necessary. Dodgy equipment is also common and many divers do not bother to check whether they can deploy their short hose alternate air supplies quickly should their buddies need one. They loop or clip them off on the first point they can find just to get them out of the way and I've heard of divers saying that inflator / alternate air combinations are for them just in case their primary 2nd stages fail and that they're sorry they cannot be of assistance to other divers in out of air situations because they don't have an octopus.

All these could have been rectified by a few more practice sessions which conveyor belt style of certifying will not provide ample time and opportunities to develop. By the way, this is not a PADI bash because it's definitely the fault of the instructors (which could have been from anywhere) BUT what if stricter requirements were set in stone (paper and ink actually) and the agencies actually bothered to check whether they've been fulfilled to the point of getting staff to masquerade as new divers every now and then?

Every sport requires practice to be the proverbial perfect and diving's no different. Why then do we have countless people jumping into the sea once in a very blue moon with a life support system strapped on which they're not only unfamiliar with (since many of them are rented) but with questionable skillsets which were questionable even from day one? In land based sports, at most, you risk potentially serious injuries as an uncoached participant if you take things too far but diving's different. Dying's a very real risk even in relatively shallow water. All it'll take is a few seconds from an airless supply resulting in panic before the average diver takes a few swallows of water and give up.

By the way, I'm thinking of coming up with a proposal to the dive centres here to find at least one which will support skill practice session only trips to nearby dive sites. With the sea so close by, it's difficult to get divers wanting to practice in swimming pools and as said earlier, the sea's nearby so we might as well practice in a saltwater environment since that's where they're most likely to be in on trips. What I foresee to be in the way will be sufficient tanks, the lower profits (hoping one will agree to charge less than leisure dive fees to entice certified divers to come practice on a regular basis) and manpower since many instructors function as dive guides when there are no students. Will this work or help in your part of the world?

 

[DevonDiver]

Should diving agencies have stricter requirements for certification...?

From who's perspective?

Agencies
Some, if not all, agencies have shareholders, or owners. Very few are run for charity. Stricter requirements would have a negative impact upon revenues and profit. Volume of sale tends to be the primary factor in profitability - especially where agencies profit from the sale of materials and certifications by unit volume. I doubt any persons seeking to profit from agency business would wish for stricter certification requirements. Unless, of course, it was a niche agency that priced up its courses on a percieved quality / exclusiveness basis - expecting to capture a minority market.

Environmentalists
In truth, anyone solely concerned with environmental protection would probably rather there were no scuba divers at all, outside of the scientific diving community. Not only do divers have an impact when they dive (and they do, even if they don't kick the corals), they also long-haul to destinations, stay in beach-side development resorts, produce trash in remote areas, stress the local infrastructure etc etc

Governments
In seeking to develop tourism revenue, local or national governments would want to maximize the accessibility to attractive diving and swell the population of active divers. There is little argument in this perception to make diving more exclusive, more expensive, more time-consuming, or less accessible to the greater population.

Divers
The historical success of cheap-quick-convenient training models for scuba diving tends to support a majority interest in less robust certification requirements.

 

[Progen]

Yeah, unfortunately I have to agree with your post although I was hoping that my proposal for practice session dives might have a positive impact on a small group of local divers who can then serve as examples to others.

 

[supergaijin]

All these could have been rectified by a few more practice sessions which conveyor belt style of certifying will not provide ample time and opportunities to develop.

IMO unless the skills learnt during training are reinforced regularly and promptly through diving, then a few extra practice sessions during the initial training will do little to improve the natural degradation of diving skills due to atrophy.

By the way, this is not a PADI bash because it's definitely the fault of the instructors

Ya can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear. Instructors are not always to blame for diver ineptitude. I for one fully accept that my students will regress after training unless they reinforce their newly aquired skills in a timely fashion.

The international community has more or less sorted out a list of minimum skills required of beginner divers. One failing IMO is that some operators (and their staff) do not do enough to ensure that the minimum skills are 'mastered' during training. I have seen this first hand, and plenty of threads on SB show that this is fairly widespread... but not rampant. If it was widespread and rampant, we would see many, many more diver accidents. The industry is certainly spitting out hundreds of Divemaster and Instructors every year, and certainly some of these people have very questionable skills themselves. This has been happening for a good 10 years now... and still accidents are acceptably low.

The impact to popular divesites where 'sausage factories' operate is undeniable.

Every sport requires practice to be the proverbial perfect and diving's no different. Why then do we have countless people jumping into the sea once in a very blue moon with a life support system strapped on which they're not only unfamiliar with (since many of them are rented) but with questionable skillsets which were questionable even from day one? In land based sports, at most, you risk potentially serious injuries as an uncoached participant if you take things too far but diving's different. Dying's a very real risk even in relatively shallow water. All it'll take is a few seconds from an airless supply resulting in panic before the average diver takes a few swallows of water and give up.

Despite all this, diving remains a relatively safe sport. Accidents happen but at an 'acceptable' rate. Just like accidents happen while skiing or cycling... again at an acceptable rate.

By the way, I'm thinking of coming up with a proposal to the dive centres here to find at least one which will support skill practice session only trips to nearby dive sites.

Kudos and bet of luck.

 

[Bob DBF]

By the way, I'm thinking of coming up with a proposal to the dive centres here to find at least one which will support skill practice session only trips to nearby dive sites. With the sea so close by, it's difficult to get divers wanting to practice in swimming pools and as said earlier, the sea's nearby so we might as well practice in a saltwater environment since that's where they're most likely to be in on trips. What I foresee to be in the way will be sufficient tanks, the lower profits (hoping one will agree to charge less than leisure dive fees to entice certified divers to come practice on a regular basis) and manpower since many instructors function as dive guides when there are no students. Will this work or help in your part of the world?

The dive shops in this are have "fun dives" for the same reasons you discuss, however the divers that show up are not the "travel" divers that could use the practice. Mostly it is local divers that are not as yet comfortable diving the ocean because of their experience, newish OW divers. It's a chance to meet people and may be pick up a new buddy, and see a new dive site.

Of course the problem with the concept here is that the ocean conditions here are the reason that a lot of divers choose to travel to warm clear water to do their diving.

Good luck on your endeavor.



Bob
---------------------------------------
There is no problem that can't be solved with a liberal application of sex, tequila, money, duct tape, or high explosives, not necessarily in that order.

 

[TSandM]

You are talking about two separate problems -- one being inadequate initial training, and the other being infrequent reinforcement.

Even with the best possible initial training, if there is no recency, there will be skills degradation. I recently took an OW sidemount class which was taught very well and had what I thought was an adequate amount of in-water time (easy, because it took place in our own pool!). Nonetheless, when I went to do my first OW dive after class, I was a fumble-fingered mess, because it had been a week and a half since I last had the gear on. And I'm a pretty experienced diver -- it's FAR worse for the person who takes his class, and then doesn't dive again for six months.

It is very sadly difficult to get people to come out for practice sessions. We've tried a couple of times, having two local dive clubs go in together to rent one of the local pools (not a cheap matter) and inviting all club members to bring their gear and come spend an hour remembering how to do things. Turnout has been dismal.

We arranged a pool session for the people going on the trip we're about to lead, because we know darned well some of them haven't been in the water for quite a while. No one came.

It almost seems to me, as a member of our local GUE community, that people who are interested in practicing and honing skills will gravitate to a diving environment where that is commonplace, and the people who don't seek that kind of community simply don't recognize the value in that kind of approach.

 

[endurodog]

My belief is that if you are worried about a particular area being damaged by poor diving that the you encourage dive operators in that area to only take divers they have seen on previous dives and are capable of diving without causing damage. Different certification standards or some minor practice would do little to help imho. Watching someone's skills and diving before going to a fragile area will let you know they have the skills/respect for the environment and will go a lot further towards protecting an area.

 

[KeithG]

Yes, let's be stricter! And all I want is a few simple things:
- hand sculling == FAIL
- fin flapping == FAIL

I see too many divers constantly bicycling their way around the reef.

All I want for Christmas is to see calm, relaxed, buoyancy aware divers that can float at a relatively stable depth in the water column.

 

[tdtaylor]

I agree with TSandM that it is two separate problems.

I just finished a weekend of special diving (mine) and in a group of six, there were three just out of OW training. They were enthusiastic, and very open to suggestions, but unfortunately exhibited traits (IMHO) of weak training. Neutral buoyancy achieved by finning vertically, not having been explained proper breathing, etc. Not to blow our own horn, but our instructors would have never let them complete the OW class exhibiting these traits (often students are asked to come back and join another class, usually only at the cost of a tank of air).

What was impressive this weekend is the dive operation checked air at two points on the dives, and on two dives, all the other divers were sent back at the surface due to low air at the first check, and I was privileged to continue on with the Trail Guide for long, deep, fascinating dives.

On the second point, I also help organize quite a number of local dive trips, and it is always the same group, maybe with one or two new divers that join us once. We work hard to get the new divers involved, feeling comfortable, often spending a fair amount of time making them feel comfortable and working to improve their skills (many are enthusiastic students we just had in class). But still, it is very difficult to have those vacation divers join us- the ones who really need it. We do have a decent business in Update classes, but OW dives would benefit them so much more.

Wish you the best of luck on you ideas- very good ones, just ones we have found difficult to succeed in.

Terry

 

[drbill]

When you look at how "many" people that get certified actually dive on a regular basis, it is easy to understand what Lynn is referring to in terms of "recency." I see divers at the dive park who haven't dived in years, and others who do less than 20 dives a year. It is hard to maintain a suitable level of skill when one dives so infrequently. Heck, I can't do it and I do 200-350 dives a year!