Should an instructor or agency be able to decertify divers?

[Hooked-Again]

No. The focus should be on making sure new divers are good divers. The solution is to fix the problem not start yanking certs.

I agree with Dive-aholic. Teach them correctly before signing off on their certification, after all it is ultimately the instructor who says if a student gets his certification or not. It is, however, up to the student to further his/her skills after certification. If an OW certified diver enrolls in an AOW course and does not have adequate skills then the AOW instructor should make sure he/she has them before any further certification.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Ok. So what if the problem is not training.

Sorry but most of these divers usually complete their courses, do a couple of dives then 2 - 5 years later feel they are ready for that advanced deep dive (or any dive for that matter). Maybe once they could do all the skills, dive with reasonable buoyancy but now they want to dive beyond their training with no refresher course.

You can't really blame their training for this.

Perhaps if more dive centers enforced the refresher course this wouldn't be such a problem. But then I guess most of these people would just lie about when last they dived because after all the refresher is probably some other way LDS's are trying to con them out of money.

We don't need to decertify people, just encourage them to dive more and do some type of skills/diving refresher after periods of inactivity.

Unfortunately, many newly certified divers have poor skills. The fact is that standards often just don't require otherwise. Go watch some newly certified divers. How could they ever get any worse? If agencies issue certs to poorly skilled divers, how could they pull certs from poorly skilled divers? Logically, the thing for them to do would be to stop issueing certs in the first place.

Show me some evidence that the agency even knows what good skills look like.

Being realistic, most agencies are just privately held, for profit companies selling a product. Why on earth would anyone even consider giving them any regulatory power?

 

[motorcitydiver]

Really what would de-certifying do? Once you have a C-card the only things it's used for are air fills and a "boarding pass" for charters. As long as you have a card in your hand the OPs don't care what your skills are, they just don't want the liability of filling a tank or taking a non-certified diver diving. The card is good for "life" and the power is in the card.

 

[jpcpat]

In theory, I think that divers should have their C Cards pulled for egregious violations of standards, not for poor skills. What makes up such a violation is for another thread. I have seen enough really stupid stunts to wonder how diving has managed to remain self regulated.

In practice, I don't see how much good it would do, for the reasons noted here

 

[Walter]

In theory, I think that divers should have their C Cards pulled for egregious violations of standards, not for poor skills.

A diver cannot violate standards. Only a dive professional can violate standards. Standards apply only to classes.

 

[MikeFerrara]

In theory, I think that divers should have their C Cards pulled for egregious violations of standards, not for poor skills. What makes up such a violation is for another thread. I have seen enough really stupid stunts to wonder how diving has managed to remain self regulated.

In practice, I don't see how much good it would do, for the reasons noted here

What standards are binding on a diver? There are none as far as I know so such a violation doesn't exist.

Agency standards generally only even apply to agency members (like instructors and DM's) during training. If we were going to de-certify on the basis of violating "standards" the place to start would be all the resort DM's taking entry level trained divers on dives that are beyond the limits of what the agency recommends or allows in training at that level. Of course then, we wouldn't have many charter left running.

An agency only has regulatory power over their pro and retail members who have agreed to adhere to agency standards.

 

[scarefaceDM]

What should be done is re-certifing incompitent instructors. Testing them rather than students. Students learn skill sets from instructors. Student follow instructors. Thus instructors, The bad ones, are to blame at the start. Now the certified student in there mind think they are good. But in fact are only repeating what they know. A good diver will evolve to a better diver and continue his/her training. The lazy ones, those whom think they are great divers keep on doing what they learned and never evolve.

 

[CAPT HOOK]

How about instuctors who should be "decertified"?

Would it be alright for "divers" to "decetify" lousy instructors when you find them?

 

[DBailey]

How about instuctors who should be "decertified"?

Would it be alright for "divers" to "decetify" lousy instructors when you find them?

Actually, the process for instructors is already there. If something occurs (death, injury, complaints from students, etc.) the agency can investigate the instructor and make a ruling as suspension or banning them from teaching for that agency.

Aslo, word-of-mouth and internet reviews are a powerful "de-certifying" force for the students. Granted, this is attacking the business side of diving more than the instructor, but it will affec the instructor.

 

[Zieg]

Why do so many folks want to control other people? Live your own life, let others live theirs.

there are too many people who want the control who can use the pool, as if it belonged to them. I guess it gives them a feeling of power, authority, superiority. Wait, isn't there a religion based on that?