Shop owners -- What value am I to you?

[AlaskaDiver]

Sounds to me like you know a bunch of active divers that don't really have a shop that is taking care of their needs. I say that because you pretty closely describe my spending habits. The main difference is that I don't really shop at my local shops at all anymore. If I had a ScubaToys or Divesports type store near me though I would be completely loyal.

Wow, I feel the same way about my dive-spending habits. If there were a technical diving shop nearby my new home, I'd be very loyal to it. I find myself making more of my higher $$ purchases online or through shops 'along the way' at a dive destination.

 

[k4man]

...
Our LDS has two Galapagos trips scheduled in the next 6 months $5200~$5500 a spot. A deposit of $2000 is due on sign up, and the rest is due 2.5 months in advance. If they book 10 spots they have $54,0000 to play with and I bet the margin is at least 20%.
...

I think this is about right. While I've not done much travel with scuba LDS's, I have traveled with high school language students over the past 22 years. Most educational travel companies will offer the tour leader a free trip one a 1:5 or 1:6 ratio (that is, 5 or 6 paid participants equals 1 free trip). Keep in mind that the company IS STILL MAKING MONEY on this while still being able to offer a free trip for each 5th or 6th one paid for. In many cases, the margin may be even higher!!!

 

[Sas]

This has been a really interesting thread for me as a new diver. I have been looking into buying more gear soon (just have the basics at the moment) so it has really made me think about LDS v the net. I think even though I can get stuff cheaper off the net I will continue to use the local shop though, which is rare for me as I buy all my clothes, books, music, pc games, etc online. I guess I have decided I really value the service part of it - at the shop I was able to pay off gear and courses interest free over a time period which is really handy, I am not sure if the online shops offer deals like that? I prefer to be fitted with gear properly before spending a bunch of money too. Returning online stuff is a pain I find. They are very friendly at the shop too!

Also I am not very knowledgeable about local dive sites yet and they send out emails each week of boat dives and shore dives with dive leaders so I never have to worry about checking the weather or organizing things myself. So yea I have found the service is really good for me.

It is interesting to hear people talk about the more longer term divers who are still using the shop but aren't up for big purchases as frequently as newbie divers. I think from my own experience, some of the older divers at the shop I dive with gave me gear recommendations (which I ended up following through with purchases) and things like that, so are probably very valuable in that regard. I know I have recommended them to friends wanting to do refresher courses and would do so in the future. Though if I felt I was getting ripped off I would quickly either seek a new diving shop or start using the net! Loyalty only goes so far...

 

[Grounded]

I guess I'm just blessed. No matter how big or how small my purchase, I get treated well and usually end up walking out knowing something I didn't know before I walked in. Every one is always so friendly, my five year old daughter even likes to accompany me for fills.

In addition to great service, the shop has one of the most informative websites I've ever seen. So, even if I was inclined to buy online, I'd still probably shop there.

they charge for fills by the cubic foot, top offs are free and 36% costs the same as 21%.

I'm not sure how profitable it is, but it seems to be the preferred shop of most of the active divers I run into on the local boats.

 

[Dee]

Yes, you have been blessed! I find that we spend more money now than we ever did as new divers, just to different places. And because of the way the dive shops treat you, we tend to buy more online where we get better service as well as prices.

 

[ReefHound]

As this thread drifts on, I can't help but wonder if the characterization of an active diver isn't morphing from what really occurs into what most LDS's wish would happen.

Most of the active divers I know don't show a lot of shop loyalty. When they buy gear, they look at a much wider universe of brands than carried by their local shop. Often they choose something from a smaller more innovative manufacturer. They buy and sell used a lot, and are always quick to point out when you can score a deal somewhere on some interesting piece of gear. Most are polite and friendly when newbies are around the shop, but you can't shake the feeling that they might not be making the 'best' choices and might regret the purchase a little further down the line in their diving career. They don't sign up for shop trips (either vacations or local charters), preferring to book with the op direct. They buy fills, but often complain about how full the tanks are or what kind of stickers the shop requires. The don't really train with the local shops, choosing to travel to Florida or using an independent instructor instead.

Agreed. I was beginning to wonder if I was in some unique environment because the above has been my observations as well but no one was mentioning it. I disagree that experienced and regular "hard core" divers don't spend as much money. They spend way more, just not at any one LDS. With experience comes knowledge, the knowledge to safely shop across the whole spectrum of brands and sources (new and used) and the ability to provide self service in many areas. They are also more aware of the ugly truths about the industry and often know more about diving in general than the shop staff.

With all due respect to Ron Frank, the divers he describes as flocking to shop trips because they provide a trip leader to babysit them don't sound like "experienced" regular divers to me. I can't imagine anyone but a novice resort diver needing advice on how to pack or what to carry on. The experienced divers I know avoid shop trips like the plaque (unless they are getting one of the free trip leader slots) becase they don't want to get stuck babysitting a bunch of noobs and don't want to dive profiles configured to the lowest common denominator.

 

[ReefHound]

In addition to great service, the shop has one of the most informative websites I've ever seen.

How can you even say this without providing the link?

 

[TSandM]

Most of the active divers I know don't show a lot of shop loyalty. When they buy gear, they look at a much wider universe of brands than carried by their local shop. Often they choose something from a smaller more innovative manufacturer. They buy and sell used a lot, and are always quick to point out when you can score a deal somewhere on some interesting piece of gear. Most are polite and friendly when newbies are around the shop, but you can't shake the feeling that they might not be making the 'best' choices and might regret the purchase a little further down the line in their diving career. They don't sign up for shop trips (either vacations or local charters), preferring to book with the op direct. They buy fills, but often complain about how full the tanks are or what kind of stickers the shop requires. The don't really train with the local shops, choosing to travel to Florida or using an independent instructor instead.

A lot of this describes me. When I make major purchases nowadays, I research what I want, and then I go to a couple of shops and ask for bids on it. I also look on line, and depending on the equipment, I may look at used options. Sometimes the local shop gets the order, and sometimes they don't. When they do, I have no idea how much, if any, profit they make from the sale.

But I have gone on shop trips, because it's FUN to go with a bunch of local people you know, and sometimes it's easier to let somebody else deal with the logistics of getting there and where to stay and so on.

And one of the nicest things about my primary LDS is that they don't SELL any gear I don't approve of (except maybe the rebreathers ). So it's very easy for me to say to the new diver looking at equipment, "Yeah, you'll like that."

 

[Grounded]

How can you even say this without providing the link?

I guess that would be a way for them to get some of that "word of mouth" reward discussed above....

Fill Express -- Nitrox & Technical Diving Specialist Serving Greater Fort Lauderdale

also (same shop- different webpage)

Dive Rite Express

 

[DeputyDan]

At my LDS it depends on who is the trip leader as to whether I would travel with them.

Some leaders love to dive and don't try to make bucks off the group. Just their comp!

Some want to take girlfriend or other "friends" free and work that cost into the price. No thanks to those!