Shop owners -- What value am I to you?

[Squishy]

This has been an interesting thread to read. Being new to diving, I was not sure what to expect from the dive shop. Let me start by saying that I really like the guys at the local dive shop. They are genuinely great people once you get to know them a little. From a business standpoint; however, I think they are missing the boat in some ways. Let me explain.

The first time I walked into the shop, I was planning to sign up for dive lessons, and was looking for information. I was very overweight at the time but was in the process of losing weight and planned on rewarding myself with dive lessons. When I walked in, there was nobody in the showroom. They heard me come in though, and someone leaned back out of a door down the hall, looked at me then said something to the people in the room and everyone had a big laugh. He might not have said anything about me, but I had the feeling that he made some comment about my size. Again, I could be completely wrong, but I would think you would want to make any customer comfortable in the store, so the activity seemed a little odd.

He came back out and we talked about my desire to take lessons. He was very nice at that point. As planned, I signed up for lessons and everything went well with the classes and the closed water dives. I ordered some equipment prior to the open water dives (regulator, wet suit, dive computer) and was told that it would be in before the open water dives. The dive shop is a couple hours away, so the next time I saw them was the day of the open water dives.

I had arranged to come a little early and the manager was going to show me how to use the computer, etc. Turned out that the manager decided to take the day off and did not come in. My equipment was not there and nobody knew if it had ever arrived. They thought it "might" be at the dive site if the manager sent it out there with the tanks and such. I was a little nervous because I did not want to get out there and find out that there was no equipment.

It turned out that the wet suit arrived, but nothing else. The wet suit was at the dive site, and the manager had rental equipment for me to use at the site. I was able to do the dives, so that was a relief, but I had to wonder why I had not been called to let me know that my equipment had not arrived, to let me know that they would have rental equipment for me to use, or that the manager was not going to meet me as planned.

I got the feeling that they operated the shop to support their own diving hobby first and to provide service to customers second. Again, these are great people, but I worry if the shop will survive if they do not reset their priorities.

 

[Prostar]

Never think that those students over there, down the beach a bit, aren't watching you already certified and experienced divers. There are always questions about what those guys are doing and why they are using that gear setup. Questions like that end up with another class and more gear sales for the shop. Somebody's shop. Remember? I sure do.

 

[bmcsteve]

This has been an interesting thread to read. Being new to diving, I was not sure what to expect from the dive shop. Let me start by saying that I really like the guys at the local dive shop. They are genuinely great people once you get to know them a little. From a business standpoint; however, I think they are missing the boat in some ways. Let me explain.

The first time I walked into the shop, I was planning to sign up for dive lessons, and was looking for information. I was very overweight at the time but was in the process of losing weight and planned on rewarding myself with dive lessons. When I walked in, there was nobody in the showroom. They heard me come in though, and someone leaned back out of a door down the hall, looked at me then said something to the people in the room and everyone had a big laugh. He might not have said anything about me, but I had the feeling that he made some comment about my size. Again, I could be completely wrong, but I would think you would want to make any customer comfortable in the store, so the activity seemed a little odd.

He came back out and we talked about my desire to take lessons. He was very nice at that point. As planned, I signed up for lessons and everything went well with the classes and the closed water dives. I ordered some equipment prior to the open water dives (regulator, wet suit, dive computer) and was told that it would be in before the open water dives. The dive shop is a couple hours away, so the next time I saw them was the day of the open water dives.

I had arranged to come a little early and the manager was going to show me how to use the computer, etc. Turned out that the manager decided to take the day off and did not come in. My equipment was not there and nobody knew if it had ever arrived. They thought it "might" be at the dive site if the manager sent it out there with the tanks and such. I was a little nervous because I did not want to get out there and find out that there was no equipment.

It turned out that the wet suit arrived, but nothing else. The wet suit was at the dive site, and the manager had rental equipment for me to use at the site. I was able to do the dives, so that was a relief, but I had to wonder why I had not been called to let me know that my equipment had not arrived, to let me know that they would have rental equipment for me to use, or that the manager was not going to meet me as planned.

I got the feeling that they operated the shop to support their own diving hobby first and to provide service to customers second. Again, these are great people, but I worry if the shop will survive if they do not reset their priorities.

Great guys or not..... I wouldn't have put up with this poor level of customer service and would have taken my business elswhere.

 

[ScubaPenguin763]

While the most money seems to be spent at once on the first few classes and the first set of gear diver retention still seems like it should be very important to dive shops. The trust that is established between a diver and a dive shop will ensure that that diver will pick that shop for at least most of their purchasing needs. While most people aren't in and out buying new gear every time something shinny comes out there are a lot of things that cost a lot that divers will only want to buy from a shop they trust. Another thing that may help to bring in money to LDS is continuing education at the instructor level. I for one know that the Dive Master class is both expensive and something that I would not have taken at a dive shop that I did not trust. Of course not all DM's want to continue to climb the ladder but they will probably add revenue to the shop in some way. Not only will DMCs and upper level people be buying equipment (even if it is discounted) they will also help to allow the shop to expand and continue to spread the word about the shop. It is more of the big picture. The customer that comes in for Open Water today may seem like a Jacuzzi diver that will never spend much in the store, you never know though, that same person could be wanting to be an Instructor and share their knowledge so they will be looking for a place they trust.

I also wanted to comment about the store where the owner did not want their employees to give their full attention to every customer. I work at my LDS and as far as I know we are expected to treat a customer with the same respect no matter what they are buying. Again, this is a way of developing trust. I will buy a bottle of defog from whoever is selling it if I need it, I will not buy a new piece of equipment or lessons from a shop that I do not feel respects me and is worthy of my trust.

I hope this gives you some more to think about,
~Morgan

 

[fireflock]

As this thread drifts on, I can't help but wonder if the characterization of an active diver isn't morphing from what really occurs into what most LDS's wish would happen.

Most of the active divers I know don't show a lot of shop loyalty. When they buy gear, they look at a much wider universe of brands than carried by their local shop. Often they choose something from a smaller more innovative manufacturer. They buy and sell used a lot, and are always quick to point out when you can score a deal somewhere on some interesting piece of gear. Most are polite and friendly when newbies are around the shop, but you can't shake the feeling that they might not be making the 'best' choices and might regret the purchase a little further down the line in their diving career. They don't sign up for shop trips (either vacations or local charters), preferring to book with the op direct. They buy fills, but often complain about how full the tanks are or what kind of stickers the shop requires. The don't really train with the local shops, choosing to travel to Florida or using an independent instructor instead.

I think maintaining an atmosphere of active divers gets people interested in the sport, and from that perspective active divers provide a valuable asset to local shops. At the same time, if I'm being honest, the active divers I see around here really tend to spread their business around without showing a lot of shop loyalty (whatever that is....).

Rich

 

[Squishy]

Great guys or not..... I wouldn't have put up with this poor level of customer service and would have taken my business elswhere.

I agree with those who wrote about the value of customer referrals. Interestingly, I have been talking to all my friends about diving ever since I started lessons. I now have about 8 people who want to get certified, and another 8 or so that want to take a refresher course. I asked the Dive Shop owner if they would be willing to come to our town to do the closed water dives. The dive shop owner said that he would be very interested in providing the class locally, (coursework online and then he would come to town for the closed water dives.)

I found two local pools that could be used (the college and the YMCA), got pricing on using them, and notified the dive shop via email about the number of people I had interested and the pool options. I told them that if the pool costs were too high, I could probably get the group to come to their town to use their normal pool. (I have used this email address for other communications and have always gotten replies, so I know the email works.)

I did not receive a response, so after a couple weeks, I sent another message. Still no response. After that, I wrote another email about a dive show in the area and did get a response to that one. I don't get it. 8 people in OW would be about $3200. Masks, snorkels, and fins for each would be conservatively another $800. Refresher course for 8 others would probably be another few hundred. So, this would have been in the neighborhood of $4500 even if nobody bought any other equipment.

This dive shop is about 1.5 to 2 hours away. The next closest one is 3 hours away.

OK... so I have a couple choices. I can go another hour and try to make some arrangements with a different dive shop, (probably the easiest option) or I can try to work things out with this shop. Like I said, I really like these guys, so I want to tell them that they are going to go our of business if they don't treat it more like a business.

From a dive shop owner's perspective... how would you take it if a customer had this conversation with you?

 

[don Francisco]

An interesting think question. I never tried to put a strict dollar value on my relationship to my favorite LDS, hopefully he's of the same mind. Anyway here goes---

Divers go through various stages as they grow from non-dive to ex-diver, and their spending patterns vary with the stages. Shakespear recognized this and penned a famous soliloquey in "the Dive Shop of Venice". Seriously though, an experienced diver may be past his peak spending period, but any good retailer knows never to prejudge a potential customer, & that every sale, no matter how small contributes to his income. The equiped diver may spend less in the immediate term, but proven continuing divers, continue to be an asset as a customers with steady purchases over years, and with referrals. Not to mention that anyone who actually dives is likely to draw non-divers into the sport, creating those newbie profit centers. The LDS who undervalues his older customers will likely suffer for it in the long haul.

Imagine if everyone valued us only by our immediate income potential. I imagine my physician's thoughts as I make my appointment for a fit to dive exam.----

"Ah, let's see who's on today's schedule. Darn it's don Francisco for another pre-dive exam. It's not that I mind but he just isn't really worth my time. The guy takes care of himself, eats right, excercises, good BP, good Cholesterol, no chronic illnesses. Spends a couple of bucks on asperin & maybe some vitamin C if he has a cold. He won't even come in for a Flu shot. Here he is again, spending thousands for a dive trip & won't even spring for an EKG. Doesn't he understand that I have to eat too!! I have a wife & three kids. My daughter's getting married & wants a big wedding. My son's applied to Princeton, what do I do if he's accepted? And to top it all off I just found out that my youngest needs braces. If cheapskates like Francisco keep taking care of themselves, I'm screwed big time. I'll have to take up cosmetic surgery, or maybe open a dive shop."

Francisco

 

[garyfotodiver]

I keep track of my dive purchases. In June 2006 I bought a Neosport 7mm wetsuit from Scuba Toys; $150. In November 2006, an Aeris computer from Divers Direct; $200 or so. In 2007, I bought 2 tanks from Phil for $400 (which I love), a Seaquest BC from eBay; $125. Thirty pounds of weights for the BC from eBay; $40. I have two regulators and each gets serviced every other year or so. This year I want to purchase another Seaquest BC and it will come from LP for $225. I bought a new gear bag in Florida to replace one that was 14 years old and had broken zippers.

I would make all my purchases from a single LDS but I am tired of the BS I get when I walk into most shops. So I buy what I want from the place that has what I want at a reasonable price. And I add that I receive better customer service from the on-line shops than from many of the brick-&-mortar local shops here in the Chicago area.

My next training course (SSI DiveCon) probably will be done in Florida.

Oh, the tanks need VIPs this month; that will be a fun time. I will bring them to the LDS where I get them filled...

 

[Burnsie]

I recently started working in my local shop and one thing I noticed is that customers come in to talk to the person that they trust. Either their long time instructor, or a salesperson that has done them well in the past. I know that I am the FNG, and that most people will not want to talk to me regardless of my experience level. Never-the-less, I treat every customer as if they were our best, even if their children are running around tearing every piece of equipment off the wall that they can get their little hands on.

The newbie divers bring in the most money through the first gear purchase and the first set of classes they take. There is no doubt in that.

One thing that people don't necessarily think of when comparing the price between your LDS and online is that I am there to help you make your decision and serve you the best that I can. If you have problems with your gear, I fix them. I am a real person standing in front of you. With the internet around, most people don't value retail salespeople anymore. Most people think that I am paid to screw you over and take your money. Six months down the road, when those newbie divers have gained experience and realize that a salesperson has taken advantage of them, will they go back? Hell no. I wouldn't.

I try to remind myself of this and get you they gear that will benefit you the most for the type of diving you want to do. If you're happy, you'll come back and buy from our store again and again. You will tell your friends about how much you like diving and that you trust the people at our store and your friends will lean towards us when choosing where to take classes and buy gear.


In short, you value the trust you have in our employees and we value the fact you come back again and again, whether it be a fin strap or a dry suit. The fact is, you came back to us.

 

[jpsexton]

Most of the active divers I know don't show a lot of shop loyalty. When they buy gear, they look at a much wider universe of brands than carried by their local shop. Often they choose something from a smaller more innovative manufacturer. They buy and sell used a lot, and are always quick to point out when you can score a deal somewhere on some interesting piece of gear. Most are polite and friendly when newbies are around the shop, but you can't shake the feeling that they might not be making the 'best' choices and might regret the purchase a little further down the line in their diving career. They don't sign up for shop trips (either vacations or local charters), preferring to book with the op direct. They buy fills, but often complain about how full the tanks are or what kind of stickers the shop requires. The don't really train with the local shops, choosing to travel to Florida or using an independent instructor instead.

Rich

Sounds to me like you know a bunch of active divers that don't really have a shop that is taking care of their needs. I say that because you pretty closely describe my spending habits. The main difference is that I don't really shop at my local shops at all anymore. If I had a ScubaToys or Divesports type store near me though I would be completely loyal.