Sexism?

[Shinythings]

I run a university dive club with 75% women, and I see absolutely no sexism at all. All of my frequent dive buddies are men, mostly because there aren't too many active female divers due to the weight of cold water diving, but also because most women I know are slow to get ready. Call me sexist if you must, but being slow is why I don't dive with them, not because they are women. I know some women that a quick to get ready and independent, and I will dive with them anytime.

 

[Freewillow]

The difference, I believe , for men is that when they are looking for a wetsuit is that it fits and is confortable.......wether it is pink, yellow, bue, black or violet..............................they don't really care.

 

[WetPup]

The difference, I believe , for men is that when they are looking for a wetsuit is that it fits and is confortable.......wether it is pink, yellow, bue, black or violet..............................they don't really care.

While I fully appreciate that you may possibly have never had to go out and shop for a female wetsuit, you don't seem to grasp that we don't usually get the luxury of choice in dive shops. We're lucky if the LDS even sells a single female wetsuit in the first place, let alone actually having a choice in the matter. Hence the reason I end up shopping in the local surf shop instead - they actually have options, ones that have nothing to do with colour.

I've had friends who were put off diving entirely during a try-out dive while on holiday on the GBR because the dive shop didn't have a single female wetsuit and they ended up having to wear an ill-fitting mens one that made the whole process so uncomfortable that they didn't want to go any further with diving.

It may seem like a minor issue in isolation, but then people seem to wonder why so many females don't continue with diving...Well, there's a good starting point.

 

[drrich2]

Quick question; while both men & women vary in proportions (e.g.: height, weight, build, etc...), is the variation amongst women the same, or is it more? If a LDS tried to accommodate women better, would it be more difficult than accommodating a similar number of men?

If scuba divers are predominantly male, that will also provide an economy of scale advantage for men in terms of wet suit rentals.

It would be interesting to get a female dive shop owner's input on the above. Wonder if any would be inclined to post on the thread?

Richard.

 

[SCUBIELady]

Nice article, Jill Heinerth. This is a good discussion to have.
Sexism in this sport can put a woman's life at risk by leading her to rely on others to ensure her safety. While self-sufficiency is a lesson all divers need to learn, many woman are socialized to be less assertive and not upset others (even well-meaning others), and the simple act of saying, "No thanks, I need to figure this out myself" can be difficult, especially because such assertive behavior is often not received well. The good part? It gets easier to say and easier to brush off any negative reactions.

 

[Freewillow]

While I fully appreciate that you may possibly have never had to go out and shop for a female wetsuit, you don't seem to grasp that we don't usually get the luxury of choice in dive shops. We're lucky if the LDS even sells a single female wetsuit in the first place, let alone actually having a choice in the matter. Hence the reason I end up shopping in the local surf shop instead - they actually have options, ones that have nothing to do with colour.

I've had friends who were put off diving entirely during a try-out dive while on holiday on the GBR because the dive shop didn't have a single female wetsuit and they ended up having to wear an ill-fitting mens one that made the whole process so uncomfortable that they didn't want to go any further with diving.

It may seem like a minor issue in isolation, but then people seem to wonder why so many females don't continue with diving...Well, there's a good starting point.

Hi wetPup. My guess is that the situatuion that you are discribing may be region related. I ma living in Europe and I do not remember that my wife or my daughter had a limited choice when it came to wetsuit.

In order to verify this, I just liiked at one of the largest scubashop with online possibilities. It is base in southern France. The name is lapalanquée.com.

If you go to the site and select wetsuit of 3mm or les, you find 17 models for men and 23 for women. For the 7mmp: 33 for men and 27 for women. Dry ones: 33 for men and 15 women and 17 for men. There are a few dry suit more without gender. My guess is that they would be for men.

So I do not think that in Europe at least, women should complain about a lack of choice

 

[Diver0001]

As a follow up, here is a link to Jill Heinerth'a article where this thread is quoted.

Sexism: Alive and well in scuba diving | DIVER magazine

Excellent article.

Yes I've experienced this in employment in this industry in more then 1 job.
Nice to know I'm in the 13% that made it to Master Instructor.

The article turned out ok.

I wasn't amused about being called out as the poster boy for sexism, though. Clearly she understood literally nothing that I was trying to say and used my text out of context to push her agenda. Exactly what I thought she would do.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

You know... I'm actually a little peeved.

Jill writes a story about sexism in diving and uses a large chunk of my text to "prove her point" but it's entirely out of context and clearly engineered through re-interpretation to manipulate readers ... that was *NOT* the point I was trying to make. It was the point SHE was trying to make but couldn't, based on her own words......

It makes me wonder who the sexist one is here.... is it the one (me) who argued that sexism in diving is analogous and approximately equivalent to sexism in the ambient culture? or is it the one (Jill) who quotes things out of context to manipulate readers and convince them that men are sexist?

Who is sexist here? In my opinion it's the one who deliberately set out to manipulate readers. No man on this thread set out to cast women in a negative light.... but one woman set out to cast men in a negative light ..... So... who is the sexist?

R..

 

[Steve_C]

The difference, I believe , for men is that when they are looking for a wetsuit is that it fits and is confortable.......wether it is pink, yellow, bue, black or violet..............................they don't really care.

You joke, right. Most men do not care as long as it is black and looks like a navy seal. Try offering a man a pink rental wetsuit and see how many will skip the dive rather than wear pink. I bet most men would refuse to wear a pink wetsuit.

Maybe it is genetic. Took my 4 year old into the rest room at the pool and told him to wash his hands. Told me he would not use the SOAP since it was pink and was ladies soap.

 

[WetPup]

Hi wetPup. My guess is that the situatuion that you are discribing may be region related. I ma living in Europe and I do not remember that my wife or my daughter had a limited choice when it came to wetsuit.

In order to verify this, I just liiked at one of the largest scubashop with online possibilities. It is base in southern France. The name is lapalanquée.com.

If you go to the site and select wetsuit of 3mm or les, you find 17 models for men and 23 for women. For the 7mmp: 33 for men and 27 for women. Dry ones: 33 for men and 15 women and 17 for men. There are a few dry suit more without gender. My guess is that they would be for men.

So I do not think that in Europe at least, women should complain about a lack of choice

Perhaps. I mean we can buy wetsuits online in Australia too, but my experience with that has been less than ideal. You can go through 6-8 different wetsuits before finding one that actually fits properly, and you're paying obscene amounts for shipping (and return shipping) on each and every one of them when you find they don't fit. Buying wetsuits online is a bad idea.

Or you can get your LDS to order one in for you, but then it's the same problem (with the addition of them usually only ordering 1-2 specific brands). You have to pay the LDS in advance to order it in, and if it doesn't fit, tough s**t, you've still got to pay for it. So you still end up in a merry-go-round with the LDS and having to sell off the ones you were forced to pay for that don't fit on eBay or something.

Honestly, it's a vicious circle...Women aren't diving because nobody is stocking appropriate gear for them, and nobody is stocking female-friendly gear because females aren't diving.

Where I live, the dive community is overwhelmingly male due to the presence of a major military base. I appreciate the fact that the majority of the customers in my LDS are men. However that doesn't negate the fact that there are female divers around here. And the LDS literally does not stock a single female wetsuit, either rental versions for students, or brand new ones for sale. Not a single one. How many customers is that LDS missing out on locally because they won't cater for women? Based on the number of other females around here that I've spoken to - there's actually quite a few.