Sexism?
- Thread starter Jill Heinerth
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Derelict
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I read this forum occasionally but signed up just to throw my 2c into this topic.
I've spent the past year living and diving in Brisbane, Australia. Most of my instructors were females, and did a bloody good job. Most of the female buddies I've had have been fantastic. But with that said, so have the males.
Is it sexist that I can carry two tanks at once, but most women only carry one? What about me lifting the tanks into the boat for them, because they lack the upper body strength? Or giving a bit of a push from the bottom when they do try and struggle? How about helping them up the ladder onto the boat, but ignoring the men who appear fine?
I just feel like with any other aspect of life where people become offended by things, it's because they choose to be offended. If you decide they're being sexist, then you'll be offended by it. Why not just laugh it off instead?
I work in a drastically sexist field. I'm an electrician. There are barely any female tradies, but tbh most are treated just like another worker, and in a male dominated field, they're just one of the blokes. But when the women aren't around, you can be sure that their sexual attractiveness is discussed. It's just human nature.
Back to diving, I've found women to great. Better under water, better air consumption and frankly often more fun to have around. I think in Australia we are generally a lot better with gender equality as well.
Well, that was quite a rant... Bed time.
I've spent the past year living and diving in Brisbane, Australia. Most of my instructors were females, and did a bloody good job. Most of the female buddies I've had have been fantastic. But with that said, so have the males.
Is it sexist that I can carry two tanks at once, but most women only carry one? What about me lifting the tanks into the boat for them, because they lack the upper body strength? Or giving a bit of a push from the bottom when they do try and struggle? How about helping them up the ladder onto the boat, but ignoring the men who appear fine?
I just feel like with any other aspect of life where people become offended by things, it's because they choose to be offended. If you decide they're being sexist, then you'll be offended by it. Why not just laugh it off instead?
I work in a drastically sexist field. I'm an electrician. There are barely any female tradies, but tbh most are treated just like another worker, and in a male dominated field, they're just one of the blokes. But when the women aren't around, you can be sure that their sexual attractiveness is discussed. It's just human nature.
Back to diving, I've found women to great. Better under water, better air consumption and frankly often more fun to have around. I think in Australia we are generally a lot better with gender equality as well.
Well, that was quite a rant... Bed time.
My primary wetsuit is blue. I bought it from the surf shop, not the dive shop. I have a thicker wetsuit that's a "diving" wetsuit, but predominantly, I buy nearly all my wetsuits/booties/hoods from a surf shop.
Not sure why, but the surfing community seems to have woken up to the fact that not all women want pink much earlier than the dive industry. I think perhaps it's that surfwear manufacturers are actually producing competition level gear for athletes, and the athletes are actually getting a say in its design. Something the dive industry doesn't really get.
Not sure why, but the surfing community seems to have woken up to the fact that not all women want pink much earlier than the dive industry. I think perhaps it's that surfwear manufacturers are actually producing competition level gear for athletes, and the athletes are actually getting a say in its design. Something the dive industry doesn't really get.
I work in mining consulting, it's not uncommon for me to be the only female on a minesite, especially overseas. I've got a pretty tough skin and will put up with a lot of crap, but there is a line beyond which the behaviour of some guys becomes unacceptable - including some in the dive industry. There is a point where I will take offense when a guy thinks I can't do my job properly just because I'm a woman, and proceeds to undermine me for no other reason than the fact I've not got a d**k. There is a point where laughing off the comments from guys threatening to break into my hotel room to give me "what I'm clearly missing out on" isn't an option. There is a point where I will take offence at dive guides I've met who have sent me d**k pics because they've stolen my contact details from the paperwork I filled in at the resort office on arrival.
Most men are great. Some take it too far. Way too far. Sexism exists - in society at large, as well as in the dive industry. I don't think it does anyone any favours to ignore it when it goes beyond a few crass comments. I think it's great that so many people have never had to experience this kind of behaviour. But it's also naive to write off other's experiences as nothing more than "someone getting offended at something they should just laugh off". Not all of it is so juvenile.
drrich2
Contributor
I suspect looks matter more in surfing. A fit person can look sleek and surf; stick a mask, big duck fins, BCD and a big metal tank on his or her back and a reg. in the mouth and you get the frog man/woman look.
drrich2
Contributor
Okay, let's take it case by case.
I agree. Many work places have policies against such. Whether you can push it and win varies case by case.
I agree. Setting limits with verbally abusive creeps can become an issue for most anyone. Male, female, black, white, etc... Some people 'don't mean any harm' but have a grossly inappropriate sense of humor/interaction style & can be 'set straight.' Some have to be fired. Shot if they break in...
Consider whether to report it to management, not return if I did & the guides were still there, possibly post about it on the internet to create embarrassment & drive change.
I never indicated that Heinerth's article didn't document some serious issues. I pointed out some flaws in it that run counter to it's intended mission.
The book Why Men Are The Way They Are was an eye opener for me. It pointed out women are the only 'minority' that's actually a slight majority, born equally into the various strata of society at all levels of wealth and political influence. Women are often much more directly involved in raising both sexes. The author pointed out that some people think because feminists perceive that women are lacking power, then men must have it, but men can have their own experience of powerlessness (say, in a divorce having to pay alimony & not having equal custody, guys who got drafted, spending more time at work, etc...), and gender roles are a product of society - both the male and female components of it.
It seems a gross underestimation of & failure to appreciate the power of women to claim that men have 'ruled the planet' for the past 5 million years.
There is some sexism in scuba, just like there is in the population at large. And there's bias against blacks, fat people, ugly looking people, etc... Her article has a tone of bias, and it doesn't serve her stated purpose.
Richard.
I agree. Many work places have policies against such. Whether you can push it and win varies case by case.
I agree. Setting limits with verbally abusive creeps can become an issue for most anyone. Male, female, black, white, etc... Some people 'don't mean any harm' but have a grossly inappropriate sense of humor/interaction style & can be 'set straight.' Some have to be fired. Shot if they break in...
Consider whether to report it to management, not return if I did & the guides were still there, possibly post about it on the internet to create embarrassment & drive change.
I never indicated that Heinerth's article didn't document some serious issues. I pointed out some flaws in it that run counter to it's intended mission.
The book Why Men Are The Way They Are was an eye opener for me. It pointed out women are the only 'minority' that's actually a slight majority, born equally into the various strata of society at all levels of wealth and political influence. Women are often much more directly involved in raising both sexes. The author pointed out that some people think because feminists perceive that women are lacking power, then men must have it, but men can have their own experience of powerlessness (say, in a divorce having to pay alimony & not having equal custody, guys who got drafted, spending more time at work, etc...), and gender roles are a product of society - both the male and female components of it.
It seems a gross underestimation of & failure to appreciate the power of women to claim that men have 'ruled the planet' for the past 5 million years.
There is some sexism in scuba, just like there is in the population at large. And there's bias against blacks, fat people, ugly looking people, etc... Her article has a tone of bias, and it doesn't serve her stated purpose.
Richard.
And I think therein lies the problem. These incidents almost exclusively happen when overseas - in countries that have no discrimination or sexual harassment laws (or in the odd case that they do, they're considered a joke by the locals). You report it to the powers that be and they shrug their shoulders and just say "that's the culture here" or "you're a young white girl, what do you expect? you should be honoured by the attention!".
The problem, at least in my experience, is not the kind of guys you will meet on Scuba Board.
The problem, at least in my experience, is not the kind of guys you will meet on Scuba Board.
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