Self Reliant Diving Required?

[TMHeimer]

Why would you even say this unless you have not read the thread, or have a very short memory, or are trolling?

SDI and PADI both require a redundant source gas, such as a pony or isolated or independent doubles. Some of the thread participant have said they view the surface as their redundant gas source....but that is not compliant to the SDI or PADI standards.

Of course I agree. Aside from agencies, I understand those saying they use the surface as a redundant gas source. I do that because I almost always limit my solo dives to 30' or less. I was taught CESA 10 years ago and do it regularly from 30' for practise. I would figure it's safer to dive to 30' as opposed to free dive there with only snorkel. That could be one nasty entanglement without a tank.
So I do believe personally that depth makes a difference. Of course the agencies, I assume, are not basing their courses on my 30' dives, but on deeper ones. If someone says they can easily do a CESA from 70', more power to them. I've never tried that.

 

[DaleC]

Why would you even say this unless you have not read the thread, or have a very short memory, or are trolling?

SDI and PADI both require a redundant source gas, such as a pony or isolated or independent doubles. Some of the thread participant have said they view the surface as their redundant gas source....but that is not compliant to the SDI or PADI standards.

What makes what SDI or PADI says a "requirement" for solo/self reliant diving? It's about as valid as PADI saying you need to always have a snorkel handy - who believes that as a hard and fast rule. Those requirements are what they feel is needed to take their course, remembering that the target diver is someone who does not have solo/self reliant experience (hence they are taking the course).

This defaulting to whatever some agency writes in a book instead of becoming aware of ones own abilities and limitations is a disturbing trend as far as self reliant behavior is concerned. What happens when such a diver encounters an issue not described.

Always packing way to much air can mean you never learn to judge how far you can go with a set amount. Always packing double everything can mean you never learn to take proper care of what you have.

 

[tursiops]

What makes what SDI or PADI says a "requirement" for solo/self reliant diving? It's about as valid as PADI saying you need to always have a snorkel handy - who believes that as a hard and fast rule. Those requirements are what they feel is needed to take their course, remembering that the target diver is someone who does not have solo/self reliant experience (hence they are taking the course).

Maybe this is too subtle, but the question was asked with Solo and Sel-reliant capitalized....I think this means in the context of the agencies (SDI and PADI, respectively) that call their courses Solo and Self-reliant. So my answer was in that context. Definitely for the classes, and then if you dive using one of those cert cards. I assume someone who shows a Solo or Self-reliant card to get admisson to a quarry (or dive off a boat) will then dive under the recommendations of that card. Maybe not.

 

[DaleC]

I think that is a very narrow definition of solo or self reliant diving.

I do both almost every week and have neither card. The words just define styles of diving.

Here's the OP:

I am an SDI certified solo diver, but I prefer to dive as a team with friends. Since my solo training, I always dive redundant. I feel more comfortable knowing that I have what I need to take care of myself. I feel like I am a better diver.

Why is buddy diving the rule or rather nonredundancy the rule? Wouldn't it make sense for all divers to be trained and equipped for self rescue. Even if they were part of a team/pair?

The first Para describes his personal experience. The second Para asks a broader question in my mind, comparing self reliant to overt reliance on the buddy system. At least that's how I read it. If it means trained as SDI/PADI currently does the question does become problematic because it would assume every diver then has complete redundancy. That probably won't happen for recreational OW divers. Doesn't SDI also advocate rule of thirds gas management? Kinda onerous on a 30' reef dive too. I'm more a spirit of the law not the letter of the law sort of guy in that regard. The intent is good but you need to know where to put the emphasis.

I'm kinda iffy on the whole solo course thing in reality. Most people I know who have taken the course have done so to simply jump through the hoops required by dive ops and continue to do what they do regardless. The notion of people actually learning to solo dive from a short course worries me as I believe it is more a mindset than a knowledge based specialty.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Why would you even say this unless you have not read the thread, or have a very short memory, or are trolling?
SDI and PADI both require a redundant source gas, such as a pony or isolated or independent doubles. Some of the thread participant have said they view the surface as their redundant gas source....but that is not compliant to the SDI or PADI standards.

Lol - and this is why I love this board! It wouldn't be much fun if we always had to play by your rules now would it?

Standards only apply to teaching not to diving - but you already knew that - right? Thank you for concerning yourself with my compliance but like I have said before neither you nor the agency can take my solo card - it has been earned and what I do with that card is on me now.

If you are telling me I can only take a class and I must blindly follow the "standards" than you are more foolish than I and I certainly do not subscribe to your mantra. That to me is akin to a Trust Me Dive. I like to use the grey matter between my ears than to follow the herd mentality flowing from some folks. If you are afraid or don't want the risk of doing a dive to 10 feet without any redundancy that is your right - take as much redundancy as you can carry. Me - I make my own decisions and chose at some level of depth that redundancy is not needed for me. Being a social discussion board - it is even fun to discuss these ideas even at the risk of offending others such as yourself. So - thanks for playing Scuba Board today - Carry On.

 

[Nemrod]

I am capable of free diving to 100 feet and can do 60 repetively. Where is my air supply? The surface. Yes, indeed, why does strapping a tank on change this fact, the surface is my ultimate and only long term solution, I go there.

In and under certain benign confitions I feel no need to haul around multiple tanks for a solo dive that I could see as an extended free dive. But of course if I present myself to a charter or dive op as SDI Solo and wish to dive solo with them then I would conform my equipment and dive plan to the standard I presented as they would rightfully expect.

N

 

[Kharon]

64 posts back, you'll discover my OP. Very few have actually answered. My question was should all divers be trained in solo or self reliance. The sense I get was that most people agree that this would be a good idea. I thought the best idea was to make it part of a progression. For example, really make AOW advanced. Require individuals to be self reliant.


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+++++1!!!!!!!!

---------- Post added May 7th, 2015 at 09:49 AM ----------

I think you're reading what you want to read.

Which do you think "most people" are agreeing with: That people should be "solo trained" or that they should be "self-reliant"? Those are two different things. (eg "all ducks are birds, but not all birds are ducks")

IMO you are wrong. They, by definition, are exactly the same thing.

 

[Nemrod]

Solo: doing something alone and witout accompaniment.

Self reliant: confident in your own abilities and able to do things for yourself.

So by definition they are not the same. A solo diver is certaily self reliant but a self reliant diver is not necessarily solo.

N

 

[Jack Hammer]

...

IMO you are wrong. They, by definition, are exactly the same thing.

Far from being exactly the same thing, though there can be overlap. GUE teaches its divers to be self reliant, they also teach them to never dive solo. Not all divers who dive solo are able to self rescue or resolve their own issues. The ducks/birds relationship cited is spot on.

 

[boulderjohn]

Standards only apply to teaching not to diving - but you already knew that - right? Thank you for concerning yourself with my compliance but like I have said before neither you nor the agency can take my solo card - it has been earned and what I do with that card is on me now.

If you are telling me I can only take a class and I must blindly follow the "standards" than you are more foolish than I and I certainly do not subscribe to your mantra.

Nemrod supplies the correct response:

In and under certain benign confitions I feel no need to haul around multiple tanks for a solo dive that I could see as an extended free dive. But of course if I present myself to a charter or dive op as SDI Solo and wish to dive solo with them then I would conform my equipment and dive plan to the standard I presented as they would rightfully expect.

The only reason to have a solo or self-reliant card is so that you can dive solo in situations where a buddy is normally required. If a dive operation requires you to have such a card in order to dive solo with them, then they will probably require you to conform to what is taught in that certification.