Self Reliant Diving Required?

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Nemrod supplies the correct response:
The only reason to have a solo or self-reliant card is so that you can dive solo in situations where a buddy is normally required. If a dive operation requires you to have such a card in order to dive solo with them, then they will probably require you to conform to what is taught in that certification.

Qualified with - if a dive operation requires you to have such a card... Can't argue that logic.

However - the thread seemed to take several twists and turns...

This however is not the complete story - "SDI and PADI both require a redundant source gas, such as a pony or isolated or independent doubles. Some of the thread participant have said they view the surface as their redundant gas source....but that is not compliant to the SDI or PADI standards."

In teaching the class and passing the requirements of the course - sure is a true statement.

But like all "Blanket Statements" - there is always room for thought, discourse and decisions to be made by the individual as to what they can and do adhere to from their learnings. I decided to get the Solo card when I found myself at 70 feet solo without redundancy wondering why I was down there - at that point I decided to "pony up" and take the class so I could use the information in the course to my benefit. That is the only point here - learn what you need to know and use your brain to figure out what is really needed or necessary - but without the knowledge it is just trial and error in some cases.

As in the laundry list of redundancy in Post #5 - it is good to challenge, oppose and lay out altering opinions to discuss so that all sides may be considered - as it is the Advanced section.

 

[RJP]

IMO you are wrong. They, by definition, are exactly the same thing.

IMO, by definition I think your definition of "by definition" is wrong.

 

[Lorenzoid]

This sort of debate could freak any newbie out, and it's exactly the sort of debate that made me gravitate toward GUE. They teach a system that includes elements of self-reliance and elements of buddy/team-reliance, integrated together into a system. It may or may not be the optimal system, but I'd rather follow the system and go diving than spend my time arguing over definitions.

 

[Nemrod]

This is the Advanced Diver forum and not the Basic or Newbie forum. If this truly freaks out an advanced certified diver they best find a team mate to hold hands with and turn their card in.

N

 

[Omisson]

Is there anyone on SB that has actually been trapped in seaweed? I am afraid to ask.

N

I had several California friends who had kelp entanglement stories. A common West Coast phenomenon...

 

[Drin]

Is there anyone on SB that has actually been trapped in seaweed? I am afraid to ask.

N

Yup. Kelp is glorious stuff, and much tougher than it appears.

Welcome to California diving.


I know it's a thread hijack, but we seem to be a little off base already, so I'll continue...

I'm more than a little confused by scubadude23's gear choices. Most of the gear you listed is appropriate for a cave, or for planned deco, but for a recreational dive? An AL80 *and* an AL40? I'd really like to understand the rationale behind the gas choices and volumes you're making. On a recreational dive if my primary gas source fails I'm switching to my pony and aborting the dive. No deco therefore no hard ceiling, so direct ascent and done. An AL40 should be more than enough gas for such an ascent, so why the 80 as well?

Thanks,
-Adrian



-Adrian

 

[Nemrod]

I generally, somtimes loosely, apply the Rule of Thirds and SDI does promote the rule for solo in the manual. I size my pony roughly to 1/3 of my back gas.

Ha, yes, I do as I accuse others and reference my experiance as the norm. There is no kelp in areas I dive and the seaweeds there present no entanglement hazards. Somehow the dives in California I have made were entanglement free.

N

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Nemrod supplies the correct response:



The only reason to have a solo or self-reliant card is so that you can dive solo in situations where a buddy is normally required. If a dive operation requires you to have such a card in order to dive solo with them, then they will probably require you to conform to what is taught in that certification.

do you feel the same about other certifications.. like tech diver certs? Only reason to pursue them is to make boat drivers happy? Thus no reason for them if you dive from shore or from your own boat?

 

[doctormike]

The only reason to have a solo or self-reliant card is so that you can dive solo in situations where a buddy is normally required. If a dive operation requires you to have such a card in order to dive solo with them, then they will probably require you to conform to what is taught in that certification.

do you feel the same about other certifications.. like tech diver certs? Only reason to pursue them is to make boat drivers happy? Thus no reason for them if you dive from shore or from your own boat?

I agree with John, I think that solo is different.

It's not a course that involves a lot of technical information or new skills to master. Solo diving requires someone to be an experienced diver who is very comfortable dealing with problems on their own, and has the basic gear to do so. It's more of a mindset thing than a skill thing. Yes, you need to demonstrate that you can breathe off of a pony bottle and shoot a bag, but most advanced divers would not consider these to be particular challenging.

If you have one diver with 1000 dives in varying conditions and no solo card, and another with 100 Caribbean dives and a solo card, most people would assume that the first diver would be better equipped to dive alone than the second one.

Every instructor is a potential solo diver. Everyone diving in low visibility water is a potential solo diver.

I'm not sure why an experienced diver, diving with a redundant gas supply from the shore or their own boat would get a solo card.

 

[boulderjohn]

do you feel the same about other certifications.. like tech diver certs? Only reason to pursue them is to make boat drivers happy? Thus no reason for them if you dive from shore or from your own boat?

I normally ignore your posts, but for some reason I read this one and will respond.

In all courses the primary value of the course is in what you learn. In some cases, the card that comes with it provides no extra value. For example, if you take a specialty course in digital photography, you may learn a tremendous amount in the course, but the card that comes with it provides no real extra value. No one is ever going to stop you from using a camera under water if you don't have that card.

In other cases, the learning is valuable and the card is necessary for certain activities. I have many such cards. If I decide to go cave diving in Ginnie Springs, my Cave Diver card is a requirement, and if I want to use my scooter in the cave, my DPV in an overhead environment card is a requirement. If I want to dive the wreck of the RBJ in south Florida, I will probably need to show my advanced trimix card. If I want to get my decompression bottles filled with oxygen, I will need to show my advanced nitrox card. The tech courses I teach allow divers to go to different depths and uses different decompression gases. They may run into a dive operation that will not check, but the odds are they will have to produce the correct card to do the dive they want to do.

As for solo diving, there are lots of places where you can just show up at the water's edge, put on your gear, and go for a pleasant solo dive. No one will care, and no card will be required. If you are going to go in off a commercial boat, the dive operator will have rules, and those rules may require a card. That is what I meant by my post.

In summary, if you are going to do advanced diving, training and experience is always required, and sometimes a card showing you have that training and experience is required as well.