Seacraft vs suex DPV

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Future range: 9.8 miles
XJ-S range: 5.3 miles
BlackTip Tech range (with custom battery pack): 5.8 miles

If you don't need a Future, then why do you need a XJ-S instead of a BlackTip?

I'm not saying you don't. The XJ-S clearly has some specs that are superior to the BlackTip. Do you actually need the additional thrust of an XJ-S? Do you need the 200m depth versus 120m? Just curious.
I don’t see blacktip in the same league with other scooters mentioned above (it is a great product for its price performance ratio), I would have interest in Cuda X if it was available but I don’t want to hassle with int’l shipping customs etc.

Here people either diving with Future 1000 or XJS and we only dive deep wrecks with (mostly) currents. From my perspective there is nothing I can do with Future but cannot do with XJS so price and availability makes decision easier.
 
From my perspective there is nothing I can do with Future but cannot do with XJS so price and availability makes decision easier.
What do you do with the XJS that you can't do with a Blacktip (at an even better price and availability)?
 
What do you do with the XJS that you can't do with a Blacktip (at an even better price and availability)?
Despite that “better” availability, we don’t have those available here. Therefore I don’t know.
 
I don’t see blacktip in the same league with other scooters mentioned above (it is a great product for its price performance ratio), I would have interest in Cuda X if it was available but I don’t want to hassle with int’l shipping customs etc.

Here people either diving with Future 1000 or XJS and we only dive deep wrecks with (mostly) currents. From my perspective there is nothing I can do with Future but cannot do with XJS so price and availability makes decision easier.

The BlackTip is not in the same league ... price-wise. Nor for maximum thrust available.

But, it works perfectly on 75m wreck dives in current.

If I needed more than what a BlackTip can do, and the choice was an XJ-S or $3000 more for a Seacraft or Genesis, I would most probably spend the extra $3K.

But, I freely admit my experience is somewhat limited. I have not yet been in a situation where the BlackTip thrust was simply not enough. And I have not gone as deep as what the BT Tech can do.

The only real limit I've worked against on the BT is the runtime. And the XJ-S has less runtime than a BT with a custom battery pack.

So, for me, an XJ-S would not solve a real problem that I have had. On the other hand a Future 1000 or Genesis does solve that real problem.
 
The BlackTip is not in the same league ... price-wise. Nor for maximum thrust available.

But, it works perfectly on 75m wreck dives in current.

If I needed more than what a BlackTip can do, and the choice was an XJ-S or $3000 more for a Seacraft or Genesis, I would most probably spend the extra $3K.

But, I freely admit my experience is somewhat limited. I have not yet been in a situation where the BlackTip thrust was simply not enough. And I have not gone as deep as what the BT Tech can do.

The only real limit I've worked against on the BT is the runtime. And the XJ-S has less runtime than a BT with a custom battery pack.

So, for me, an XJ-S would not solve a real problem that I have had. On the other hand a Future 1000 or Genesis does solve that real problem.


I want to second that. For me, there are several things that matter about a DPV, but one of the important ones is: working time at optimal speed (around 45m / min), propelling typical tec-diver equipment such as doubles + deco, or ccr + bailout. Seacraft helpfully has "working time at optimal speed" on their specs pages.

Propulsion is a consumable resource, like gas, and so should be thought of in terms of planning and redundancy, at least on technical dives. For example, if one is going open-water exploring, one should plan for equipment failures. If solo, one should bring a backup DPV sufficient to reach a safe exit from the furthest point of the dive -- this adds mass and drag to your rig, so you will effectively need more power if you want to maintain 45m / min. If not solo, then your buddy's redundant propulsion is your DPV, and each diver must be able to tow a buddy to a safe exit from the furthest point of the dive, ending with 1/3 propulsion capacity remaining (the last 1/3 is for true emergencies).

For example, future 1000 advertises 350 min at optimal speed, so usable capacity for planning is 230 minutes, and planning extra conservatism for towing ppl, heavy gear etc, I'd be comfortable using it to plan a run of 180-200 mins. After some charge cycles, I assume that on any of these, the battery isn't ready for replacement, but no longer charges fully.

The genesis 3.1 offers similar or better runtime to the future 1000 and I like its other properties such as continuously variable transmission, user-replaceable battery, sealed engine compartment etc. The Seacraft navigation system can be mounted on genesis, as I learned on this forum, so navigation alone is not a reason to choose the scooter. If I find myself wanting to regularly push beyond 3 hours, I'll get a 3.2 and keep the 3.1 as backup (also, a 3.1 can be converted to 3.2).
 
@gordonscuba: Yes! And that is what was so surprising to me about the Suex. 185 minutes runtime at "cruising speed"?

In very simplistic terms, that means 1 hour in, 1 hour out, and then you have to recharge before you can do a 2nd dive.

The popularity of Suex in cave country had me really expecting better #s from Suex.

But, I have no cave DPV training (yet), so maybe I am really missing something about that (besides the obvious response that most cave DPV dives are not on the trigger 100% of the time).
 
@gordonscuba: Yes! And that is what was so surprising to me about the Suex. 185 minutes runtime at "cruising speed"?

In very simplistic terms, that means 1 hour in, 1 hour out, and then you have to recharge before you can do a 2nd dive.

The popularity of Suex in cave country had me really expecting better #s from Suex.

But, I have no cave DPV training (yet), so maybe I am really missing something about that (besides the obvious response that most cave DPV dives are not on the trigger 100% of the time).
I know a guy :)
 
I know a guy :)

:D I plan to do Cave DPV. But, I don't have enough cave dives yet to even feel comfortable going in with a DPV yet. And no time to do more in the very near future. Maybe in February. :)
 
:D I plan to do Cave DPV. But, I don't have enough cave dives yet to even feel comfortable going in with a DPV yet. And no time to do more in the very near future. Maybe in February. :)

I am not a cave diver yet either, but I have due respect for cave divers. I believe that, generally, well trained cave divers make good decisions on gear because it's especially critical to their survival. Hence I imagine the cave divers who use suex brand scooters, are using the xk not the xj-s. The xk has stated runtime of 330 mins at cruising speed, which would also be fine for my 3 hour open water exploring. However, the xk is 55 lbs as compared to the future 1000 and gen 3.1 both at 35 lbs. That's a 20 lb difference!! When the rest of your kit is well over 100 lbs before adding any dpvs, I don't know... I would carry extra weight if it was a critical piece of lifesaving gear that just happened to weigh 20 lbs, but in this case (xk vs genesis, or xk vs future) why should I add 20 lbs? Apart from runtime, the future and the genesis both have better tech like magnetically attached propellers allowing the diver to easily clear prop entanglements, etc, with the genesis being more advanced than the future in that regard.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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