Scubapro Knighthawk

[JeffG]

Brules once bubbled...
AHHH! No comments funny guy!!!

Brules

Actually, Yes I do have some comments, Funny Guy.

You once said

Brules once bubbled...
Wow.....this is like amazing!!!

8 comments, and not 1 DIR/It Sucks Buy a BP/Wings reply yet!!!!

Is the world coming to an end?!

:wacko:

and I responded 4 messages later saying "Yes it sucks".

But I guess you didn't get the joke because you went and started ranting about DIR/BP divers...blah blah blah.

And now you say

Brules once bubbled...

Which is totally untrue, and probably turns alot of people off to the DIR way off thinking. You are the one that should be at the book burnings.....since you obviously don't want me to disagree with your viewpoint.

I hate to burst your bubble, but you are the only one whining.

And Better yet..

Brules once bubbled...
Be as DIR gungho as you want, just don't force it down our non-DIR throats at knife point, and drop the condescending attitude that many of you get about it. Your prickishness does NOT go unoticed!

So what...

And then...

Brules once bubbled...
I and many others would be MUCH more open to it, and not ridicule you like I do if you would just be NICE and CIVIL about it.

I don't care what/how you do anything....

(and P.S. remember you were the one that started the ranting.)

And best of all

Brules once bubbled...

Don't be a jerk, and I won't make fun of you.

Sorry, We are laughing at you, not with you.

Jeff

 

[wch]

ZoCrowes255 once bubbled...


i've been diving the Knighthawk for a about 2 months now and have made somewhere near 30 dives on it in that amount of time (it has quite a few pool hours too.) It's a very good BCD that is EXTREMELY stable both at depth and at the surface but that is with the integrated weights. If you plan on using the weight belt I would steer you away from it.

I am not a tech diver but from what I understand, despite it's rear air cell, it's not a BC for tech diving.

Kemo racer, if you are still following this thread and not turned off by the little spat going on, I would disagree with the statement about the weight belt. When I dive cold water (49 degrees at Point Lobos last week is cold to me) I split my weight between the bc and a weight belt. This works great. I am not sure what the problem would be???

Bill

 

[JeffG]

wch once bubbled...


Kemo racer, if you are still following this thread and not turned off by the little spat going on,

Sorry

 

[Brules]

Sorry as well Kemo.....this guy is perpetuating the very thing I have talked about......

Sorry your thread got hijacked all by my teeny tiny little funny message.

Now this Jeff guy is stalking all of my posts and attacking my messages.....he seems a bit kooky.

Sorry again. I will leave this thread alone unless I have a comment on the Knighthawk.

Brules

 

[Windwalker]

wch once bubbled...


I dive a Knighthawk and I really like it.

<Snip Snip>

I know you can save some $ by piecing together a less expensive plate and other parts, but the bottom line is you will not get all of those features on a BP/Wing system for less, or even the same, as the $540.00 dealers sell Knighthawks for.

I feel it is comforting to know that the SP fasttec weight system is good enough that Halcyon uses it.

As to how it compares to BP/wing in the water, I do not know. I do know that I am very happy with mine.

Bill

Thanks for pointing out that price information, You are correct for the kits, I did not clarify myself and mention that If I had wanted a BP/Wing, I would have built it myself, I think that for all the components it would have taken it would have been roughly $530, My Knighthawk <getting into Asbestose Wetsuit> Cost me $650 with an Air II, Now, the BP/Wing did not have an Air II on it, so If I wanted that feature, then yes, you are correct. But, I must mention that (please correct me if I am wrong) the Knighthawk is not as configurable as a BP setup in that, I am not aware on methods for hooking up doubles (is there some type of adapter out there?) and the D-Rings and such are not really moveable, (Although there are a few of them). If I wanted to get into more Technical Diving, I am sure the Knighthawk would prove to be inadaquate in the long run, But Hey! I ain't planning any of that for at least a hundred or so more dives so a Knighthawk is the best thing since a Toaster Oven!
But still, I liked the Knighthawk for its Simplicity, Quality of Manufacture, and its features.
For example, I love the Fastex Buckles that allow me to quickly ditch and put on the BC with Minimal fuss. I like the tank strap that allows me to keep the height of my BC perfectly adjusted every time I switch tanks.

<on to another hot topic> I don't buy that Fastex Buckles are junk, They are used in many life critical applications such as Mountian Climbing, Hiking, Skydiving, etc.. I have had many metal belts fail on me, some even beating on with a hammer did not fix. Still the "Anti Fastex Crowd" does have a point, they break. Has anyone seen those Really Cool Aluminum / brass Fastex buckles? If anyone has seen Blade the movie, they are what are on Blades outfit. My dog has a collar with one of those things on it and I can attest they are indestructable.

Thanks for putting up with my Rant..

 

[wch]

I think the $530.00 figure is way optimistic if you add the comparable weight systems to the BP/Wing. I agree with you about the technical diving part, except I don’t see myself doing any technical diving ever.
My Knighthawk shows it can use twin 12L tanks (I think that would be about 80 cubic feet each) I suppose there is a kit to make this possible. One LP95 is enough air for any of the diving I do. The BP/Wing set up is definitely more flexible.
I would like to try a BP/Wing, I am open to better ways of doing something, but having invested in, and gotten dialed in with my KH, it will be a long time before I will be getting anything else.
Now my son is going to need a new BC in the near future. I am seriously considering a BP/Wing for him.

 

[Windwalker]

I have always been taught, an optimist is one who doesn't know all the facts

I priced a OMS Aluminum Backplate and Harness at leisurepro for $90, and a Dive Rite 60 Pound wing for $189 ($279 Total) That left me with a $251 for weights, tank straps, shipping, etc. Mydive shop was more expensive, and they wanted $530 for a Backplate/Harness/Wing (90lb) without weights and stuff. I tend to like to purchase through my Local Dive shop, they have service that is worth it.

My Knighthawk did not come with any weights for its integrated weight system, that was over the price I have already paid (but I already had weights so that was not an issue)

So it IS possible to get into a BP/Wing setup for pretty cheap.

 

[metridium]

Brules once jumped to quite a few conclusions by proclaiming...
ALL I commented on was the way that the DIR ppl go about it, and the attitude (yourself included) that they cop 99.9999999% of the time, which is:

"If it isn't DIR/BP/Wings....it is crap"

You haven't been paying attention. My attitude is "If it's a jacket, it's most likely crap."

I do prefer a certain system, but have I mentioned it here? Noooo....

Brules wrote...
Which is totally untrue, and probably turns alot of people off to the DIR way off thinking. You are the one that should be at the book burnings.....since you obviously don't want me to disagree with your viewpoint.

If people recommending backplates really aggravates you so much, maybe you should do what you claimed you already do and skip them. Or debate them point by point if you want to add something useful to the discussion.

I enjoy a good debate, but I don't like someone trying to hinder others' legitimate opinions being given to an interested third party.

Brules wrote...
Be as DIR gungho as you want, just don't force it down our non-DIR throats at knife point, and drop the condescending attitude that many of you get about it. Your prickishness does NOT go unoticed!

LOL. You really should pay more attention: Using a backplate doesn't make me or anyone else DIR. Nor do I think they'd appreciate you including a computer wearing solo diver in their ranks. I'm a free agent, so I can be as nice and helpful to genuinely openminded people or as intemperate with the occasional closedminded mouthbreather as I like.

Brules wrote...
Don't be a jerk, and I won't make fun of you.

Were you planning to try?

 

[metridium]

wch wrote...

If you compare apples to apples that is. Take the price of basic BP/Wing ($555.00 for the 36# pioneer @ 5th D), add the Halcyon weight system with fasttec buckles like the Knighthawk ($132.00 at 5th D), add the tank trim weight pouches to get balanced ($46.00 each at 5th D), like the Knighthawk has built in, and see where you are in a price comparison.

The ACB pockets are ridiculously expensive, but IME the trim weight pouches are completely unnecessary. I used to think I needed trim weights, but I have since learned differently and haven't used them in several years.

If you're looking to save money over the ACBs, a P-weight installed in the channel of your backplate is a great way to put 7lbs or so directly on top of your center of buoyancy. That's assuming you still have some ditchable weight elsewhere, such as a weightbelt. The location of the P-weight will mitigate the effects of the weightbelt on your center of gravity.

 

[Windwalker]

Here are some general observations (from my point of view) about the Knighthawk BC..
When I was in Class, I used an Large Jacket style Scubapro Classic BC, to get the proper fit from the Knighthawk, I needed an XL.

Here are some General comments about the "Features" of the Knighthawk.
It has an Adjustable Cummerbund, if the straps are too long they can be taken up from the back. After proper adjusting, The BC Feels great in and out of the water, I could Happily hike a Mile with that Camel!

It also velcro's, and they didn't use "a little" velcro either. The strap is pretty wide, and the velcro makes it feel like its one piece, not hanging around to catch things.

The waist strap has a good section of strap elastic to keep the belt tight when things start to compress under water. This is a Nice feature. I use a 7mm wetsuit, It compresses quite a bit, The elastic provides a snug fit as I descend. Although I don't have the best of luck with Elastic, If something is going to wear, I think this is going to be the first thing to go. I guess I will find out.

At the end of every strap is a plastic D-Ring, not really designed to be a tie off, but usefull to grab to make quick adjustments; even with Thick Gloves. Even the Ditch weights had plastic D-rings to hook the thumbs on to assist ditching. In this manner, I don't really mind plastic. If it gets snagged on something I would rather it break then keep me down. I have not had any problems with them yet, One thing I can say, is.. I wish my Hiking Gear had these things.. They make strap adjustment a no brainer with something positive to grab hold of. My guess is the more technical people would not like it because its an unnecessary "Frill."

On to the chest strap.. Oh Boy.. what a piece of work!
One thing that I noticed with the chest strap. The chest strap connects above the shoulder strap disconnects.. what this means is, if you want to quickly ditch the system, undo the chest strap first otherwise when the BC/Tank/etc drops the chest strap is going to attempt to strangle you. Not that I am in the habit of dumping my gear, on land or under water.. Just image this.. You climb aboard the boat, you sit down on a surface to take your gear off.. your lazy so you just unclip your shoulders. (forgetting the chest strap) then you try and stand.. People will be laughing at your expense. not.. that.. this has ever happened to me :wacko:

The BC also has a built in handle in the plastic Back plate, it is not a seperate piece.. essentially the plastic backplate is a one piece chunk of plastic with a hand hole. The hand hole is not accessable while the BC is on, and it can be a pain to grab sometimes, but it works.

Also, As mentioned in the Advertising, it has trim pockets.. they are about the volume of a pack of Cigarettes. there are two, Narrow but tall. I have never used them, to adjust up or down trim, I move my tank up or down. Your mileage may vary.

One cool thing I just noticed is, My BC came with a Whistle, and a Hose manager attached to the AirII hose.. That is pretty nifty.
Also as with all (?) ScubaPro BC's the left shoulder dump (there are 4 on the BC that I can remember off the top of my head) is activated by grabbing the BC inflater hose (down close to the inflater, and gently pulling. I sort have have mixed feelings about this. If in a "Stress" situation, I try to dump air in this matter, I am afraid I might do damage to the setup.. But it could be more hardy then I am giving it credit for, it hasn't pulled off yet (then again, I haven't been stressed yet either).

Disclaimer. These are my observations and opinions. Not the opinions of the owners of this board or the little green men who are coming to get me... :alien: :alien: :box: :alien: