Scubapro Galileo G2 short NDL

[Chris Karrer]

Thanks so much ScubaDada, i really appreciate your help in this strange matter!
Yes the P-Factor on Suunto computers will shorten or extend the NDL, to shorten NDL is particularly useful after a short night ...
At least here in Europe it is normal that scuba divers leave this factor (and the altitude setting) on zero to avoid confusion under water regarding NDL and whn tu ascend.
My coldes and longest "deco" was a client who had altidude mode and P3 activated and catched 19 minutes deco, so i waited with him on 5 meters/15 feet and then ihe insisted to do also 3 min safety stop!!! I should also mention that i was shivering of cold and my bladder was ready to explode ...
The 7-9 minute NDL difference between the G2 and the Galileo Luna or the Eon Steel remember me to dives where my divers forget their altitude mode in high altitude
and/or played around with positive P factors.
However, to be honest, i strongly disbelieve that this discrepancy is because of the 16 tissues and not the 8 tissues, but i am not the algorithm guru.
Chris

 

[Chris Karrer]

This is very interesting, I didn't think that it was possible to be more conservative than the Suunto computers

Yeah, that's the reason i am curious/worried!
Chris

 

[dmaziuk]

Yeah, that's the reason i am curious/worried!

As Craig said above, Steel is not running the same algorithm Zoop does, so being more conservative than Steel is not quite the same as being more conservative than Zoop/Vyper. My google-fu fails to quickly find a reference to ZHL-8 compartments, I wouldn't be surprised if round-off errors added up to half of the fastest one. For ZHL16 that would be +/- 2 minutes easily. You are seeing more than that so there's more than that going on.

 

[BoltSnap]

I used to think this too, and it may be generally true. @Diving Dubai provided me with additional information some time ago. At least for the Eon Steel and the Fused RGBM algorithm, if you set the personal adjustment value at P-2, the computer appears to be as liberal as DSAT. I don't know if this would continue to hold up for repetitive dives.
View attachment 428308
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Any idea what the P-2 and P-1 correspond to in GF or CBR (Critical Bubble Radius) values?

 

[Chris Karrer]

For ZHL16 that would be +/- 2 minutes easily. You are seeing more than that so there's more than that going on.

Thanks dmaziuk;
I can understand a difference in 1/2 minutes between rec dive computers with different algorithm,
but the difference i encounter is 9 minutes between Galileo Terra ZHL8 and 7 min with my Eon Steel.
Millions of rec divers used/use dive computers with similar (+/-2 min) NDL and now the G2 is telling me that i have 9 minutes less?
As far i remember the same happen on dives around 60-80 ft, just the NDL differece was less extreme.
Unfortunately the LogTrack software dont store/save when the computer goes in deco so i can't verify that with the old profiles i did not memorized the difference.

I will continue to investigate and test them but if someone else have a G2 and another computer it would be interesting if they experience the same issue.

Chris

 

[Chris Karrer]

I found some documents regading the ZHL16 algorithm and bubbles
- Neo-Haldanian and bubble models,Bühlmann, bubble grow andBubble dynamics (scroll down, then it's in english)

- Dr. Wienke - Comparing Suunto Fused™ RGBM with Buhlmann Model
http://www.diveresearch.org/download/Publicaties/Haldane en bellen 2006.pdf

 

[scubadada]

Any idea what the P-2 and P-1 correspond to in GF or CBR (Critical Bubble Radius) values?

For the air dive to 30 meters/98 feet, the P-2 setting has the same NDL as DSAT, 20 mins. This corresponds to a Buhlmann GF hi of >100. No idea how this relates to any RGBM parameter.

DSAT Air NDLs:

DSAT/Buhlmann:

Good diving, Craig

 

[Diego Crippa]

Buon giorno a tutti vado in mare da 18 anni più di 1000 immersioni...
Ultimamente usavo Uvatec Galileo Sol con sonda cardio e sonda aria , e Mares icon HD Net Ready
galileo sol 8 tessuti dava tempi di fondo migliori rispetto a Icon sia sulla 1a immersione e sopratutto sulla 2a immersione ma solo di qualche min es. a 30 mt. galileo sol 2 min in più di permanenza di Mares Icon, poi ho caricato l'aggiornamento trimix a galileo sol... diventato quindi : Galileo Trimix 16 tessuti, lavorava uguale a Mares Icon circa!!! penalizzate le 1e immersioni di 1-2 min e di molto di più le 2e immersioni "diventate come Mares Icon HD net Ready" pressapoco uguali in tutto!!! tranne per il deep stop profondo es. mares Icon su un immersione a 30 mt.aria fuori curva lo da a 15 mt., Galileo Trimix ad aria a 12-13 mt.!!!
Comprato a luglio 2017 Scubapro G2 e usato sempre in coppia con Mares Icon HD Net Ready, sulle 1 immersioni identico al Mares Icon tranne sul dep stop profondo come appena scritto sopra, la sorpresa è stata sulle seconde immersioni... in profondità in linea con Mares Icon...fino alla deco, uscito in decompressione "ero a 38 mt". G2 mi ha messo 9 minuti in più di Deco rispetto al Mares Icon (che era in linea col Galileo Trimix ) tutti i compiuter erano settati con ARIA 21% o2
video di una 1 prima immersione a 30 mt. Tornato da poco dalla Sardegna ho fatto controllare lo Scubapro G2 al negoziante, abbiamo trovato che la sonda cardio dava i dati sbagliati "doppi" (al posto di 60 battiti sui 100, ed al posto dei 100 sui 220-240) mi è stata riconosciuta la garanzia sulla sonda e sostituita... purtroppo non ho più fatto seconde immersioni con Scubapro G2 al momento! ma ne sono rimasto molto deluso!!!
Scubapro sulla pianificazione della 1a immersione a 30 mt. da una curva di 16 min.
so che suunto eon steel con P-2 da 20 min., mares icon L0 15 min. e galileo trimix L0 16 min.
Scubapro G2 e Galileo trimix con L0 16 min. dovrebbe corrispondere a Suunto Eon Steel a P0

 

[scubadada]

[QUOTE = "Diego Crippa, post: 8104017, member: 490005"] Good day to all I've been going to sea for 18 years and over 1000 dives ...
I recently used Uvatec Galileo Sol with cardio probe and air probe, and Mares icon HD Net Ready
galileo sol 8 fabrics gave better background times than Icon on the 1st immersion and especially on the second immersion but only a few minutes. at 30 mt. galileo salt 2 min more than stay of Mares Icon, then I uploaded the trimix update to galileo sol ... so it became: Galileo Trimix 16 fabrics, worked the same as Mares Icon about !!! you penalize the 1st dive of 1-2 min and much more the 2 "diving" like "Mares Icon HD net Ready" almost the same in all !!! except for deep deep stop es. mares Icon on a dive at 30 mt.aria off curve from to 15 mt., Galileo Trimix air at 12-13 mt. !!!
Bought in July 2017 Scubapro G2 and always used in conjunction with Mares Icon HD Net Ready, on the 1 dive identical to the Mares Icon except on the deep dep. As just written above, the surprise was on second dives ... deeply in line with Mares Icon ... until deco, released in decompression "I was 38 mt". G2 put me 9 minutes more than Deco compared to the Mares Icon (which was in line with Galileo Trimix) all compiuters were set up with AIR 21% o2...[/QUOTE]

The change in performance when upgrading a Galileo from ZH-L8 ADT to 16 compartment trimix has been mentioned before on SB. I wonder if the G2 is running this same algorithm, i.e. ZH-L16 ADT, and this accounts for the shorter NDLs, especially on the 2nd or additional repetitive dives? There is not much information available on the proprietary Uwatec/Scubapro versions of Buhlmann. Too bad @KATESCUBAPRO and @JulesSCUBAPRO do not participate any longer, especially on the Scubapro forum

 

[Diego Crippa]

Ciao
Ciao Scubapro G2 lavora con ZH-L16 ADT si è più ristrittivo del 8 sono sicuro, ma il g2 è molto penalizzante anche di 9 min. rispetto a un'icona Mares hd net ready ed al Galileo trimix sulla seconda immersione, provato di persona