Scuba Tanks & Nitrox

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Reefraff,

What is the max pressure for 100% Oxygen when filling a bottle? Where can this rule be found?

Warm Regards,
George

Why does somebody always want a rule? OK, I'll play along...

As a rule of thumb, I think almost everyone is comfortable filling 3AA cylinders or 3AL cylinders to 2200 - 2400 psi, including your local gas supplier. The gas houses, it might be noted, aren't all that fussy about oxygen cleaning and servicing at the pressure they'll fill, though they dedicate the bottles. There are still a dozen or so people each year in the US that die because of fires related to the use of medical oxygen and a few more welders that get roasted - this at 15 psi.

Many scuba shops will fill 3AA or 3AL cylinder to 3000 psi. Hey, we're a wild bunch of iconoclasts but we also (supposedly) are cleaning, servicing and dedicating the bottles. There isn't much concern about smoking as an ignition source while using them, either.

In some limited aerospace applications, much higher pressure are achieved. I've got Haskel that is rated for 5000 psi of oxygen which is serious scary. The local Haskel rep told me a story about watching one of them cook off years ago at an aviation repair facility - at those pressures aluminum doesn't melt, it burns once you ignite it. That's where those NASA-type protocols and inspections come into play. For what it's worth, NASA defines any 100% O2 atmosphere above 5 psi as hazardous, the result of the Apollo fire.

So the rule, if there is one, is highly situational. The more work you are willing to do to prevent fires, the higher pressures you can (probably) live with. The weak point in any scuba system is usually the valve seat - either the tank or the 1st stage - which is usually made of Teflon (or similar) and which begins to degrade at temperatures below 300F and will decompose at temperatures below 600F. Remember, you don't have to have a conflagration to have a serious problem, a blown valve seat or a lungful of poisonous gas is bad enough.

Let me ask: what do you think is a reasonable psi limit for scuba - and why? Personally, based upon years of seeing tanks, valves, regulators and even compressor filters burn up in high O2/high psi situations, my rule is I'll pump 100% to 3000 psi so long as I'm confident that the bottle and valve are clean, otherwise it's a no go or a lower fill. That's it for me but YRMV.

This is what titanium looks like when it burns in 100% oxygen at 8 psi:
190632main_wstf1286-2725.jpg


Oxygen fire in an operating room:
PJ-AO473_pjINFO_G_20090217162409.jpg
 
ok i got a big problem with my tanks

USD tanks from 1966 steel 50's (i think)

but thay have some coating in them i can get out to oxygen clean them ?

any words ?
 
ok i got a big problem with my tanks

USD tanks from 1966 steel 50's (i think)

but thay have some coating in them i can get out to oxygen clean them ?

any words ?

Take it to a professional and DO NOT attempt to remove the coating yourself.
 
My suggestion is take it to take it to a shop that really knows what they are talking about (at least to get a VIP) and pay for a VIP to detect any hydro carbons with light. IF they do, get them O2 cleaned and have them put an O2 clean sticker on it. If no visible hydrocarbons are present, an O2 clean would be rather redundant. I understand their reluctance if the shop that VIP'd the tank didn't check for hydrocarbons but hey, what can you do?

sorry a black light can not detect most hydrocarbon contamination today... a black light only detects natural carbon based lubricants, synthertic lubricants in general do not fluress..
 
Hmmmm, if they have a membrane system, the are actually removing nitrogen, not adding oxygen....

and CONCENTRATING ALL other contaminents..
 
I sent an email to the manufacturer on two items: #1DIN information #2 oxygen clean tanks and valves.

The tanks are cleaned for pure oxygen from factory. I was surprised to find out that the valves are NOT and ARE NEVER SUITABLE FOR PURE OXYGEN. Meaning NO PARTIAL PRESSURE FILLS WITH THESE VALVES. I do not think dive shops follow this protocol. I know one that does not.

Here is there response.

Thank you for your questions regarding DIN and your new steel tanks. Let's see what we can do to help you.

As for the Aqualung regulator conversion to DIN, you will need to visit an Aqualung dealer. They will be able to assist you with the conversion. That is not something we can help you with.

These cylinders have a 230 bar valve on them. That means they can be filled to 3442 psi at 70º F. This is an ISO valve standard recognized by the CGA. If you want to fill to 300 bar (4350 psi), you would need a different valve. However, this cylinder is not rated for a 300 bar fill, so it can still only be filled to 3442 psi. There are divers who do like to use 300 bar valves on cylinders rated for 3000, 3300, and 3443 psi.

As for enriched air fills, our cylinders are cleaned for use with mixtures up to 100% oxygen. It is not necessary to clean a brand new XS Scuba cylinder. However, if you bring a new cylinder to a different store, then they have no way to assure that the cylinder is still clean internally and may require a cleaning before filling. That is up to them.

There is a sticker on the side of the cylinder that states the cylinder is good for use with enriched air mixtures. You can ready this sticker for more information.

Please be aware that our valves are labeled for use with pre-blended mixtures up to 40% O2 only. We do not endorse filling our cylinders with 100% O2 due to the limitation placed on the valves. There is nothing that can be done to these valves to make them suitable with pure O2 used in a partial pressure fill.

Take care and dive well.


EVERYTHING FOR THE PERFECT DIVE...

XS Scuba Customer Service


Scuba Tanks and Nitrox

Recently I was denied a fill at 32% Nitrox on two of my brand new x7 steel 100 scuba tanks from a shop that only does partial blending. I was surprised since Worthington the manufacturer, states they are cleaned for oxygen. I had only filled with Nitrox 32% on all other fills. These were blended fills.
It would seem that if Worthington says they are clean and the shops that I bought them from used the correct lube on the Yoke they should be ok to do partial blending.
I guess this is not true and you have to pay a shop separately to do their own oxygen cleaning and put their label on the tank. Also if you get your tanks filled with just once with E grade air, they are no longer oxygen cleaned.

Two CGA grades explained:

The CGA Grade "E" quality verification level has become the specification most widely referenced for sport diving. CGA Grade "E" is generally considered to be the absolute minimum acceptable breathing gas quality for SCUBA diving, and many consider it to be too liberal. Filling an "Oxygen Clean" cylinder with CGA Grade "E" will introduce hydrocarbon contamination such that the cylinder is no longer considered O2 clean and may not be used for partial-pressure blending.


"Oxygen-Compatible" is CGA Grade "E" with reduced maximum acceptable carbon monoxide, hydrocarbon and particulate levels. The International Association of Nitrox Divers (IANTD) and American Nitrox Divers International (ANDI) created this designation for gases used in technical diving and gas blending. The U.S. Navy and the American Academy of Underwater Sciences (AAUS) have also issued "Oxygen-Compatible" specifications. All the "Oxygen-Compatible" specifications are similar but not identical. For the purposes of this discussion we'll use the IANTD "Oxygen-Compatible" specification.

Well, I was surprised at this finding. Now I guess to get partial blending I have to pay another $100+ to get my new tanks oxygen cleaned with new stickers. Some shops don’t even honor other shops stickers. The consumer is sort of stuck in the middle.

Does anyone else have problems with Nitrox fills, stickers, etc.?

Any comments?
 
sorry a black light can not detect most hydrocarbon contamination today... a black light only detects natural carbon based lubricants, synthertic lubricants in general do not fluress..

Already clarified and reviewed, see above.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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