Scuba Schools of America/Rusty Berry

[Blackwood]

Holly crap sunshine!

Any chance you might be interested in learning to fly?

Day 1 lessons
Day 2 bose noise canceling comm gear
Day 3 Glasair

 

[Lina77]

Holly crap sunshine!

Any chance you might be interested in learning to fly?

Sure thing Cody...I don't have a problem flying, I do it all the time. Hell, I even had a blast skydiving...

 

[MaxBottomtime]

At the show when I met him, it was $400-600 to get certified is what I was told. That just included tuition and education materials as I found out later.

I paid $160, including rental wetsuit, BC, tank and weightbelt for the duration of the three week course.

2 days later when he wants to give you the orientation at the store, it was another $860 for personal equipment, snorkel, fins, mask, gloves, hood and boots. Straight to the pool to make it automatically used.

Let's see, snorkel <$20, fins <$100, Mask $60-$100, gloves <$35, hood <$25, boots about $45. I'm seeing a pattern here.

2 days after that, it was the BC, computer, drysuit and all the other stuff that goes with it, which was another $7300.

Easily found for under $2000 anywhere else.

 

[sneighbor]

Greetings to the forum, this is my first post here.

The wife and I decided to attend the Lobster Fest in San Pedro California back in October 2010.

We ran into Rusty Berry and his crew. Turns out we knew one of his people as she works at Lowe's and helped remodel our kitchen. So we tended to give Rusty a little more of our trust than we might otherwise give a total stranger - BIG mistake.

So Rusty got me into his DEMA "be a diver" swimming pool, got the dive gear on me and I swam around a bit. Very cool. As a life long swimmer and recent recipient of a basic sailing certification, I had always considered taking up diving. I'd been snorkeling, but always envied scuba divers.

Rusty tells us that he has a "show special" lessons and certification for $100.00, normally $350.00 or something like that. I'm thinking really? that sounds like a good deal. I tell him we'll think it over while the wife and I have some lobster (after all that's why we went to the Lobster Fest).

We go back over to Rusty's dive display and start asking more questions. How much will equipment cost me? Rusty says between $300 and $600 dollars per person. I've never dived before, sounded reasonable to me. Then I asked him about being stuck with equipment should I decide diving wasn't for me. I don't know about the rest of you, but too many times in my life I have spent money on something and later lost interest. Any of you have a closet full of stuff you just had to have? Well, I'd like to think that I'm older and wiser now, and I didn't want to make that same mistake again with hundreds of dollars worth of diving equipment.

Anyways...Rusty says don't worry, if you decide that diving is not for you, or you think that we are a bunch of wingnuts, I'll buy back everything you purchased for exactly what you paid. Really? I says...

Well, I must be a trusting fool. I figured I had nothing to loose. And after all this guy was a friend of a friend, why would I doubt his word?...

He seemed nice...(yes, I must be a dumb@$$) But I really did want to dive, I was excited.

So we signed up. And then he tacks on the additional "educational materials" consisting of a SSI book and dive log totaling $300.13. That should have been my first clue. Ah, I thought, this is no time to be a cheap skate. Total for educational materials and certification for the 2 of us was $513.00.

Still seemed reasonable though.

About a week later we show up for "orientation." Rusty starts grabbing stuff from around the shop. Masks, snorkels, fins, gloves, hoods, boots. He talks to us about these spring things that can replace the straps on the fins. Cool, but we didn't agree to buy them.

So he rings everything up. $1795.00!! Yes, the springy things were added. So were floaty mask straps with SSA logo (funny, I don't remember asking for those either but he charged us $15.00 each for 2 of them), threw in some mask cleaner and "spit" another $8.00 or so...

Then he says, lets go out to the pool and try your new stuff!! (in retrospect, that was a sneaky way to not only get the equipment outside of the shop, but also to make the new equipment immediately used. Both of which void his BS 2 day return policy, but I didn't realize it at the time. I was still in nooby trust mode.

To make and already too long story shorter, jump forward another week. We've had our 1st lesson and now we are sitting in Rusty's shop for one of our 4 "coaching" sessions. Rusty wants to schedule our dive boat trips. I want to confirm that those are included in the $513.00 I already paid as I was under the impression that the $500 covered everything. Oh no Rusty says...we'd only be making $1.50 an hour if we included that. I say that's not my problem, you sold me certification for $100.00.

Turns out not only extra dive boat fees, but equipment rentals to boot. What? I says... I thought all equipment rental was included. No, only equipment used in the pool, not on the boat.

Ok, I was going to shorten this story. Remember the money back guarantee? if I decided they were a bunch of "wingnuts"? A big lie! And they ARE a bunch of wingnuts!

Rusty was quick to point out that signs are posted in his shop regarding his no return policy, etc.

Bottom line, we both went from excited to start scuba to will probably never scuba. And are out $2300.00 in useless equipment and certification fees and no certification.

 

[Johnny Mojo]

I got no dog in this fight, but I know how it feels to be taken...insert car mechanic, plumber, fund manager, home improvement contractor...here. Seems like the guy preys on peoples desire to "live a dream" and it quickly can turn into a financial nightmare. In the short time this thread (and the other one) has gone up people with actual experience are finding out about it and chimming in.

I read the information that Thal linked to and it would be generous to say that Rusty was getting a 50% satisfaction rating by those that have taken the time to review him. There will always be people with more money than sense, so many may find no fault with him. I'm in a "land locked" area with 1.5 dive shops. If either of these guys treated people like this, there would be nothing left here very quickly. Makes me appreciate what we have.

Nobody likes to see Pi$$ing contests, but surely Rusty is aware of this thread by now. Anybody think he will attempt to defend himself?

J.

 

[Leejnd]

Bottom line, we both went from excited to start scuba to will probably never scuba. And are out $2300.00 in useless equipment and certification fees and no certification.

Okay, this sounds horrible. But what I'm having the most trouble with is, trying to picture this mad scramble to sell you things, and you just...doing it! To the tune of $2300! Please understand I'm not doubting your story, but I'm just having a hard time imagining this in a way that doesn't make you at least somewhat complicit. For example, the spring straps - you say he spoke of them, then he rang them up even though you didn't say you wanted them. If you didn't want them, why did you BUY them? If you saw him ring them up, but you didn't want them, why didn't you ask him to NOT ring them up?

I get that you thought they were all returnable, but did you ask to see that in writing? You just went on his word? I'm not sure I would be willing to lock that much money up in something I wasn't sure I wanted, without seeing an ironclad guarantee that I could get my money back if it turned out I didn't.

I'm not questioning for a second that the guy's a crook. Just the idea of selling re-breathers to noobs sounds criminal to me. I'm just having a hard time with both of these descriptions of the events leading up to your sudden revelations that you are now out of thousands of dollars for stuff you didn't need and ultimately didn't want, without a) doing any homework into what other, less expensive, options are available for getting certified, or b) asking to see the money-back guarantee in writing. I mean, that's a lotta money to give a stranger on faith.

Lessons learned, I guess.

And FTR, I'm not defending him. Just struggling with the idea of handing that much money over for things that I didn't ask for or need or want without doing at least SOME small amount of verification.

 

[Lina77]

Nobody likes to see Pi$$ing contests, but surely Rusty is aware of this thread by now. Anybody think he will attempt to defend himself?

J.

Rusty will defend and lie through his miserable teeth when he sees this. On the BBB review site, he basically insults and calls every negative reviewer a liar and praises the positive ones, which are his buddies. In the end, you just have to see that all those people who have never met can't possibly be conspiring to lie about the same thing.

 

[sneighbor]

When I was wanting to get OW certified, I was checking out various LDS's and I went to his shop; it was very impressive. Lots of high end gear, plus a cool clubhouse with a PS3 and HDTV...I thought I had found the shop I was going to get certified through. He sits me down asks me why I want to dive, have I snorkeled before, etc. Then here's basically how our conversation went:


him: we don't even use wetsuits here, you're gonna want to use a drysuit...we do all our dives in drysuits.
me: oh, using a drysuit sounds cool
him: Plus rebreather diving is really the way to go, so we let you try out a rebreather in the pool, and if you like it we'll get you trained on that (tone here sounds like the training is either included in the OW cert, or a small additional charge)
me: wow, sounds impressive, so how much do you charge for OW cert?
him: Anywhere you go charges you about the same for OW.
me: So how much do you charge?
him: Like I said, anywhere you go is gonna be the same...but we offer better quality here.
me: so how much do you charge?
him: all places are the same
me: well there's bound to be some variation from shop to shop...I've already encountered some differences in the shops I've been looking at, so I'm curious to know specifically how much you charge.
him: like I said, everywhere is the same.
me: okay...well that whole drysuit thing, is the rental included in the price of the OW cert?
him: no that's extra.
me: how much?
him: about a hundred dollars
me: and can I just put on a drysuit and be good to go, or is there stuff I need to know about it?
him: no, you'll need to know how to use it.
me: so is that knowledge provided in the OW cert or is there separate training invloved?
him: No, that is extra
me: So how much does that cost?
him: If money is an issue I offer private loans...you shouldn't worry about how much you're gonna spend, you should be concerned with the quality you're gonna recieve.


I could go on, but the point here is that he makes it sound like OW is the same price everywhere but he offers you a phenomenal experience for the same price. You have to cut through his sales pitch and start really asking questions before you realize he's trying to lure you in with the mentality that scuba diving cert isn't all that expensive, so that he can ultimiately talk you into spending thousands of dollars. It's tough to convey "tone" through text, but suffice it to say he didn't like all these questions I was asking and I could tell from his tone and body language that a lot of people simply do what he wants...he was trying to hide that he was hiding answers, but he was definitely intentionally hiding the answers I was looking for...or at least providing the absolute minimal amount information possible.

Diver Doug,

I only met with Rusty several times over a 2 - 3 week period, but the dialog you recorded above sounds like him to a tee. I can even see the dead-pan look on his face as he tries to con you right to your face. I was just shaking my head while reading thinking, yep...that's Rusty all right.

And you are right, he is very convincing. He's very good at psychological compliance sales techniques.

 

[akdeepdiver]

I looked at his website because I was curious. Under FAQ the is the question "how much does it cost to get certified?" He states that it is between $300 and $900 per person at a minimum. That seems like a pretty broad range to me withought pinning prices down.

 

[Lina77]

Okay, this sounds horrible. But what I'm having the most trouble with is, trying to picture this mad scramble to sell you things, and you just...doing it! To the tune of $2300! Please understand I'm not doubting your story, but I'm just having a hard time imagining this in a way that doesn't make you at least somewhat complicit. For example, the spring straps - you say he spoke of them, then he rang them up even though you didn't say you wanted them. If you didn't want them, why did you BUY them? If you saw him ring them up, but you didn't want them, why didn't you ask him to NOT ring them up?

I get that you thought they were all returnable, but did you ask to see that in writing? You just went on his word? I'm not sure I would be willing to lock that much money up in something I wasn't sure I wanted, without seeing an ironclad guarantee that I could get my money back if it turned out I didn't.

I'm not questioning for a second that the guy's a crook. Just the idea of selling re-breathers to noobs sounds criminal to me. I'm just having a hard time with both of these descriptions of the events leading up to your sudden revelations that you are now out of thousands of dollars for stuff you didn't need and ultimately didn't want, without a) doing any homework into what other, less expensive, options are available for getting certified, or b) asking to see the money-back guarantee in writing. I mean, that's a lotta money to give a stranger on faith.

Lessons learned, I guess.

And FTR, I'm not defending him. Just struggling with the idea of handing that much money over for things that I didn't ask for or need or want without doing at least SOME small amount of verification.

I can understand that. But in my case, I was very excited about learning how to scuba dive, it was something I've been thinking about doing for a while. If you ever have the misfortunate of meeting Rusty, you'd understand. He can be charasmatic and friendly and treats you like your buddy. You walk in, offers you a glass of wine, he always has his son running around and you think, this looks like an honest guy. He does add things on to the receipt that you don't catch till you go through it with a fine comb. As for his guarantee, the receipt states a 2 day return policy, but during the "orientation", he takes you in the pool right away and it automatically becomes used, voiding that return. As for the more expensive Totaly Diving System, it is written and it's never shown to anybody until you ask for a refund, but he refuses to honor it, even when the student does exactly as it says, as in my case.

We were trusting because we were eager and excited about starting a new adventure...haven't you ever gotten a bit carried away when you're really excited about something?