Scuba Police @ Philadelphia Quarry, TN (Lambertsen rebreather trials)

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Why in the world would you want to pay to test gear in a pool when you can test it in open water for free? If I go to a pool I have a very limited number of hours available, equipment restrictions, fees, much longer distances to travel and in at least one of the few public pools, water that only comes up to my waist. No thank you, I'll continue to test my gear in the Sound.

And old, untested gear doesn't always work right. Big deal. That's why you're testing it in the first place.
I routinely test my old gear in the Clackamas River, Gladstone (near Portland), Oregon rathre than in a pool. The only pool I have around here is a great one if I can get into it. Scuba is only allowed on Sunday between 11:00 AM and 1:00 PM, and only if there is no other event around (we dive with the kayakers above). But this is a major events pool, and more times than not the pool is closed to scuba (Oregon State Swim Meet, Water Polo, etc.). So I go to the river.

Today, I had my twin 45s in the water with a USD Mistral and a Dacor Olympic 400 as my backup (twin post manifold). The Mistral is normally a great regulator, but today for some reason the exhaust valve was stuck, and exhaust was pretty hard. It was very unusual, in that I could exhale okay, until I exhaled hard and then it became very difficult. Usually that goes away with a bit of water, but not today. Whenever I cleared the mouthpiece (I did this on purpose several times thinking the duckbill was stuck together) it became almost impossible to exhale. Only if I did the exhale very slowly would it come out, and it was somewhat position-dependent. If I rolled with my left shoulder down, it was easier. I've got the regulator downstairs now and will tear it apart to see what happened. However, without much exertion, and normal breathing the regulator was working okay, so I continued to use it instead of the Dacor Olympic 400.

The salmon smolt are in the river now, as is a number of other species. Red-sided shiners are schooling with the smolt. And I found what looks like a pearl ear ring today (kids jump off the High Rocks area, and hit the water hard). I observed the large-scale suckers on the bottom for a while, and then tried doing it with the Olympic second stage. I could not get quite as close with the Olypmic blowing bubbles around my face, but they were not too detoured by the bubbles--just kept about a foot further away.

I found an interesting stick with most of the bark stripped off it, and pulled it out of the bottom. I took the rest of the bark, and then took it with me on the dive. 'Got a fishing lure and a pair of swim goggles too.

One other story, since we're talking about weird things happening. I always go down to talk to the lifeguards and tell them I'm going in the water, what I'm going to do, and where I'll be when. I then go back to tell them I'm out of the water. Today when I was talking to the lifeguard before the dive, he told me what happened to him yesterday. One of the kids yelled out that someone was drowning, and pointed to bubbles coming up. The lifeguard jumped in, swam over and surfaced dived down 15 feet (he asked me how deep it was there). He did this despite wearing a PFD (they do also wear fins--Churchills). He got down, reached out and grabbed, but got something and had to surface. He surface dived again, grabbed the individual, and started hauling him up. The diver fought him off, and he realized the guy was alive. He had grabbed the diver's face mask the first dive, and apparently pulled it off. When he surfaced, after the second dive, the diver came up too, and told him he was diving there (probably told him more than that). I told the lifeguard about the ol' days of dive instruction where they had "pool harassment" and the instructor pulled the regulator out of the diver's mouth, the mask off, etc. I said maybe they should restore that type of training, as it may be needed sometime. :wink: I also told him that he had done a good job (it was dark, and he could not identify that this was a diver). Getting that deep is difficult for these lifeguards.

SeaRat
 
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He and I go back a ways, to our time at Oregon State University in the early 1970s, diving with the OSU Sea Beavers dive club.)

John

You must have seen Graf Hall (engineering) while there. He was my grandfather, and my other grandfather was wrestling coach and one of the trainers who took the OSU team to the Rosebowl (when it wasn't at the Rose Bowl for security reasons during World War ll, 1942).
 
It’s been a number of years since I was teaching but I do recall being told that as an insured, currently active instructor you never, never give any advice or feedback to divers that you are not directly responsible for. If you see some fool struggling to get in the water with 95 pounds of lead on their weight belt and you tell them, “Hey man, you got way too much weight on.” You have now become responsible and liable for them. If that diver takes five pounds off their belt, staggers in to the ocean and drowns with a 90 pound weight belt, you were the last instructor to give them advice. You could be taken to court.

At one time, I might have thought that scenario to be outrageously hyperbolic but now with divers being sued by their deceased dive buddy’s estate, maybe it’s good advice not to interact with other divers.

It’s just one more reason that instructors traveling to do their own personal diving never show their instructor card. I have actually heard from a number of instructors, “When I’m doing my own diving, I show the lowest ranking card that will get me on the boat.”

A little Different viewpoint: That is just the problem; that we are a litigious society. The instructor or anyone there could be sued if something did happen. The instructor however is a bigger/better target. It does not mean that there is foundation for the suet, even if the instructor had said nothing at all.
If something did go really wrong does that instructor or any professional on site that has received additional training in scuba rescue, have a professional obligation to provide assistance?
KimseyO – I don’t mean you any harm but let’s play out that what if something did go wrong.
How would the investigation have gone?
Police: did you know this guy was here?
Instructor: yeah, we talked a little bit when he got into the water
Police: did you notice anything wrong?
Instructor: yes, he went down for just a few minutes and his high pressure hose was leaking, He came up and was tinkering with his gear.
Police: Did you say anything?
Instructor: No; he's not my student.
Police: SO, you knew there was a problem and you said nothing and did nothing to prevent this death?
…
AS tech_diver said, the instructor might have ignored you. Did the conversation you have with him take plausible deniability away? When he notice or perceived you had a problem he had to make a decision that he thought was reasonable and prudent. We are not alone in the diving community and there are two sides to the coin. It is not always about you and your gear. The instructor’s viewpoint might have been; you were putting him in situation which he might have to drag your body up from the depths. It is better to address the cause or potential for accident before it is one.
 
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Are you serious? The instructor did not have a "duty" to say anything. It is obvious he had no idea what he was looking at so he should have kept his critical mouth shut or been less of a butthead and politely asked about the vintage gear. Personally I'd have asked him to give my students a short lesson on the gear. Thanked him and then asked when we could get together so I could dive it. Not been the dickhead that guy was. All he did was show his ignorance by acting like a douche to try and impress his students woth his vast "knowledge".

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How about an early Healthways Scuba with the membrane exhaust? Mine seemed to work fine until I actually had it submerged and up behind my head.

I really don't trust any regulator until I have tested it a couple times on easy dives.

You made my point, you tested it and it tested OK on the bench, would you have taken it on a dive is it hadn't worked OK on the bench. Anything can happen at any time but I wouldn't start a 100 mile trip if I knew my car had a problem with the intention to fix it on the side of the road.
 
Are you serious? The instructor did not have a "duty" to say anything. It is obvious he had no idea what he was looking at so he should have kept his critical mouth shut or been less of a butthead and politely asked about the vintage gear. Personally I'd have asked him to give my students a short lesson on the gear. Thanked him and then asked when we could get together so I could dive it. Not been the dickhead that guy was. All he did was show his ignorance by acting like a douche to try and impress his students woth his vast "knowledge".

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Jim,
was that in response to my post? Not sure I said he did or did not - I justed asked the question. Yes, in all likelyhood he should have handled it differently and not been such a, how did you say it, butthead. While it was obvious that the instructor did not know what he was looking at it is also obvious that KimseyO was having some problems on that day with his gear. Maybe you missed that part. So what would the learning objective of that lesson. That Vintage gear requires lots of tinkering, has problems, and should be avoided? If that was not the objective, in this case, what would have the students actually remember... that KimseyO had been tinkering with his equipment when they got there, started a dive the had to abort it because there were problems?

I think that Demo would be better on a day where as Nemrod put it "the **** is working 100% before arriving at the dive site and not sitting rock"

all i am say is there is a different point a view and not saying some thing does not prevent you for getting sued or remove an obligation.
 
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It's amazing how big a person can tend to think of himself once he buys himself a title. A dive instructor is nothing to the world around him. His only duty is to the students and the agency that are paying him. The guy wasn't scared of a potential lawsuit, he was just an arrogant control freak. Kimsey0 should have sued him for mental anguish.
 
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I think it is hilarious that a Conshelf XIV is considered "Vintage" gear. My 1973 USD Catalog shows a Conshelf XII, and it has a modern yolk, HP and LP port, and a second stage that probably still cannot be beat by modern regulators. I consider his dive a "vintage dive" (sans BC, inflator, gauge) with modern equipment (except the harness). I consider the Conshelf XII to be the first of the modern type of regulator.

I've been reading this, but diving this weekend (wonderful weather here in Portland), and I have a few stories to tell about the weekend (especially today). More later--I need a shower pretty badly.

SeaRat
 
Hate I missed the faces, I stop and watch for a while if I need to "say hello" the the instructor, otherwise I just pass by. I know a good many of the instructors but I don't recall who that class was.
I will be happy to put you in some real dive gear any time so you too can turn heads. :)

Oh, I can turn heads...just not with anything impressive. :wink:
Appreciate your offers to try.I WILL take you up on it one day.Too cool not to. :cool2:
I guess I should start making rock piles near the beach entry. :D
 
As an antique lover myself, I can understand to the dedication to them. But when it comes to my gear, it is always checked BEFORE I go on a dive to ensure it functions properly. Also, As an antique collector, It is never used. The equipment sold on todays market has been modified to enhance safety of those who use them.
As an Instructor, he would have been held accountable for any mishap the may have occurred. I happen to know this instructor as he is the very one who certified me over 150 dives ago. He was very instramental in helping me overcome aquaphobia.Thankfully, He does stress safety,because it is is something that one should take seriously.
I guess that makes me his......Deputy..... wawawahahaha
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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